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Home My WebLink AboutNCS000348_Transcription of Oral Comments_20200318NC Department of Environmental Quality Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC November 21, 2019 May: David May, Hearing Officer Denard: Derek Denard, DEQ, Environmental Specialist Garcia: Lauren Garcia, DEQ, Environmental Specialist Kozlowski: Carol Kozlowski, Participant Dazewiezri: Edward Dazewierzi, Participant North: William North, Participant Jimenez: Nick Jimenez, Participant Allen: Kerri Allen, Participant Ahlers: Deborah Ahlers, Participant Key: Peter Key, Participant Baker: Lynn Baker, Participant Wilkins: Emily Wilkins, Participant Hatem: Joe Hatem, Participant Mosteller: Karen Mosteller, Participant Haddon: Chap Haddon, Participant Sharkey: Lora Sharkey, Participant Webb: Tom Webb, Participant Yarb: Bud Yarb, Participant Jakus: Bob Jakus, Participant Ward: Catherine Ward, Participant Baldwin: Merle Baldwin, Participant Parisi: Donna Parisi, Participant Ingram: Jennifer Ingram, Participant Tomlin: Tom Tomlin, Participant M/F: Male/Female Speaker [INAUDIBLE] [TECHNICAL COMMENTS] 00:05:32 May: Thank you, everybody, for coming out tonight for the hearing. Before we get started, can everybody hear okay? [TECHNICAL COMMENTS] 00:06:16 May: And one other quick comment before we get started. I noted one sign or poster that we have in the audience. I would ask, if you do NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 2 have signs or posters, if you would, at the conclusion, we'll have a time period where you could hold those up to have photographed for the file. But if you would, if you would, kind of refrain from waving those during the hearing, that would be appreciated. But there will be an opportunity to display those. 00:06:40 Thank you, again. This public hearing will please come to order. Before we begin, I ask that everyone turn off or silence all cell phones and pagers as a courtesy to the speakers. My name is David May and I have been appointed by the director of the Division of Water Resources and the director of the Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources to serve as hearing officer for this hearing. 00:07:08 I am the regional supervisor for the Division of Water Resources water quality regional operations session in the Washington regional office. At this time, I would like to introduce representatives from the Department of Environmental Quality, as well as elected officials that are present tonight. And at this time, I would ask that staff with the Department of Environmental Quality stand to be recognized. 00:07:34 And among these at the front, there are also several in the back, as well. And thank you. You may be seated. And we would also like to recognize any elected officials that might be present tonight. I believe we have one or two, and I'll apologize if I don't Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 3 say the name correctly, but Ms. Deborah Hallers [ph] and any others that might be present. [INAUDIBLE] [TECHNICAL COMMENTS] 00:08:16 May: This hearing is being held under the authority of Title 15A of the North Carolina Administrative Code 2H.0503. A public notice for this hearing was published in the Star News in Wilmington on Monday, October 215t, 2019, and posted online and sent by email to the water quality certification mailing listsery [ph] on October 16th, 2019. 00:08:44 The purpose of the hearing tonight is to obtain public comments on two draft NPDES permits. CPI USA North Carolina, LLC has applied to renew NPDES permits to discharge wastewater and stormwater from the Southport Power Plant at 1281 Powerhouse Drive, Southport, North Carolina, in Brunswick County. CPI USA North Carolina, LLC holds the subject permits. The wastewater permit is NCO065099 and the stormwater permit is NCS000348. 00:09:23 This hearing tonight is not a question -and -answer session with the Department of Environmental Quality staff. It's an opportunity for us to obtain community feedback on the applications. I'll be preparing a written record of these proceedings. For this reason, the audio of the hearing is being Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 4 recorded tonight. Written comments received by 5:00 p.m. on December 23rd, 2019 will also be included as part of the record. Written comments may be submitted to the email address or postal address found on the handout available at the registration desk. Equal weight will be given to both written and oral comments. 00:10:04 I will now ask Derek Denard from the Division of Water Resources to make a short presentation for the draft NPDES wastewater permit, NC0065099. [INAUDIBLE] [TECHNICAL COMMENTS] 00:10:59 Denard: Okay. My name is Derek Denard with the Division of Water Resources. I'm an environmental specialist, and I thank you for coming tonight, and taking some time to be with us. I'm the permit writer for the wastewater permit. And I wanted to just give you a little bit of information about NPDES program, the Clean Water Act in 1972. It's Section 303, classifications [ph] and standards, and Section 402 of the Clean Water Act. And Congress assigned responsibility [ph] of implementation into the EPA, and that was delegated to North Carolina in 1975. 00:11:41 And we operate under the 103 grant [ph]. North Carolina uses [ph] statutes and rules to administer the program, and EPA has oversight to our program. The federal Clean Water Act is under 402, and there's federal regulations [ph] in Part 40 CFR. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 5 And we have our state statutes in our administrative code 2H and 2B-2H is for permitting, 213 is for standards. 00:12:14 Well, who needs a NPDES permit? Well, we've already mentioned wastewater and stormwater. Then there's also indirect discharge —pretreatment [ph] programs that fall under that. And then there's deemed permitted activities to consider [ph]. 00:12:30 Permitting process, you get an application, then a draft permit, and need public notice [ph] for 30 days. And some of you commented on it in the 30-day period. And then we have a public hearing, like we're having today. And then there's a final decision and it must be made within 90 days after the public hearing. And if approved, the permit will have up to a five-year duration. 00:12:52 Permit —there is permit conditions to consider. There's a components list, receiving stream characteristics, effluent limitations and monitoring requirements, special conditions, standard conditions. So I'm getting in talking about what's an individual permit. So that's what some of the main sections of the individual permit. 00:13:12 Talk about —a little about [ph] the history of the power plant. The power plant started operations in 1987, and the NPDES permit was issued in June of that year. The facility was acquired from Primary Energy, and then —formerly Congentrix Southport. Operates under a purchase agreement with Progress Energy, which Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 6 is now Duke Energy Progress. Southport is a combined heat and power cogeneration facility providing steam to Archer Daniels Midland. 00:13:44 And here's a picture of —let me see if this pointer is working for me. Well, it's not a good pointer. Okay. Well, this is —down here is Archer Daniels Midland, and there's a steam line running across. If I had this pointer working. Oh, it does work, but you can't see it on that screen. 00:14:08 Okay. And so there's a steam line, but they share it with a neighboring industry. They send their steam there as part of the — so that's why we call it the cogeneration. And it has two electrical generating units, 44 megawatt units that total up to 88 megawatts. And they burn a fuel blend of coal, derived tire fuel, we just call that TDF, and wood. And you see the percentages for those there: 11, 40, and 49 respectively. 00:14:43 The facility description in the permit —and this is where you would find it in the supplement to cover page of the permit [ph]there's a few main parts that are related to which outfall. And the first part I want to talk about is the fuel pile [ph] runoff, which is coal, fuel, and the TDF. And then the low -volume wastewater, which is a lot of different waste streams in the facility, and that also goes to Outfall 001. Backwash from the boiler feedwater demineralizer, boiler blowdown in the powerhouse, Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 7 accumulated water in the floors, and you know, miscellaneous [ph] sump pumps. You know, any groundwater that leaks in, anything like that, in the turbine building. 00:15:26 We've got wash water. This is new to this permit. It's — they take a pressure washer —and I'll show you pictures —and clean the mechanical drag system. Cooling tower blowdown is in Outfall 002, and reverse osmosis can be found in Outfall 004. This is an overview of the plant. And if I had a pointer, I could point out some of the things to you. I'll kind of just do [INDISCERNIBLE]. 00:15:54 So this is the cooling towers. Over here is demineralizer [ph]. The RO is here [ph]. This is the powerhouse. The fuel piles are here. This is wood. This is coal. And this is the tire pile. This is the wastewater plant [ph]. 00:16:13 So, hopefully y'all heard me. And so the treatment components consist of a distribution box and weir. And you can see the distribution box there. And this is —they have two half - million gallon settling basins as part of the treatment process. And this is an aerial view of that, and you can see where Outfall 001— which is the low -volume wastewater, Outfall 004, the RO water, and Outfall 002 is the cooling tower blowdown. 00:16:48 And we see a map of the area. You see Duke Progress Energy's Brunswick steam station is upstream on this canal. They Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 8 divert a large portion of the Cape Fear River for cooling. So CPI discharges to that canal at Outfall 003, which is the final outfall. And so all the internal outfalls001, 002, and 004combine to Outfall 003. And you know, the numbers are out of sequence. Well, 004 is a later addition for the RO [ph]. 00:17:23 And you can see the facility is in red, and the line that is underground traverses that railroad track in that arc to the canal. And it discharges within —it's underwater within the canal, so they take samples at the end of that treatment system that I showed you. 00:17:44 And this is showing some of the more aerial photographs here. Here's the Cape Fear to the far right. And the nuclear power plant is up —you can see it up towards the top there. And then the small triangle at the bottom is CPI. 00:18:03 And this is the discharge from the nuclear power plant, its 1.9 billion gallons per day maximum flow. And they have an NPDES permit, NC0007064. And you know, comparing the flows of the two [ph], CPI's dilution is very great [ph] in that canal. The line should be red, but it's so small, it's actually not showing up as red. So that's about a little over 400,000 gallons. 00:18:38 Some more slides of show —you know, we're showing some close-ups of what I talked about earlier, facility boundary and the discharge location on the canal. And this is the —where it discharges at the coast. And the canal actually goes under the Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 9 Intracoastal Waterway [ph] at one point. You can see it go back [ph]. You can see where it —very bottom, where it crosses underneath the Intracoastal Waterway. 00:19:04 And then you'll see —this shows it better. You can see the plume [ph] where the discharge is at, as opposed to sediment being kicked up by the flow. So that's, you know, nearly 2 billion gallons. 00:19:17 Get into some of the monitoring here. We're monitoring for flow, pH, TSS, and oil and grease for the coal pile run —fuel pile runoff and the low -volume wastewaters. We increased [ph] total suspended solids from —we lowered it from a hundred to 50 for the daily maximum, according to the federal standards. 00:19:46 This is another picture of the facility. And I don't have a pointer to point everything out. I think I've been over that. And the thing I want to point out in this diagram here is the green B [ph] trenches or ditches. And that is how their —all the —so there's stormwater in this permit, but it's considered a wastewater because this is a categorical [ph] industry, and this is a —one area of this categorical industry, it's regulated by 40 CFR 423. So all the fuel pile runoffs go into that drainage ditch. You can see it better in this close-up, and they all drain to the wastewater basin. 00:20:30 And this is a close-up of, you know, a lot of the low - volume waste, the boiler blowdown are in that building, the main Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 10 powerhouse. It's a close-up of the fuel piles. You can see the difference from the wood and the coal, and the tire -derived fuel. And you can see those —these are the drainage ditches, and they all converge down to Outfall 001. And then Outfall 004, this pipe [ph] around this discharge right into the —and that's the OR [ph]. 00:21:05 And this is a good view of the —you know, where the wood chip pile is, and where it discharge —you know, it flows through the silt screen [ph] into the V-ditch. And the coal pile, as well. And this is a —this is where we draw the line between stormwater and wastewater. So on this side of it, it's covered by the stormwater permit, and Lauren [ph] is going to talk about coming up. But the coal pile blows off into this V-ditch and drains to the wastewater plant. 00:21:31 So they have a —they keep the different waters there separated. Two different stormwaters, but one's considered a wastewater for it [ph] —it comes in contact with the coal. This is the tire -derived fuel pile, and they load it and take it down to the plant. The rest of them are —you know, see these conveyors [ph]. They get —they convey them straight into the powerhouse. This is the V-ditch coming in from behind the —so this is the tire pile here. So that's the backside. So all of that drains into the —and here's a V-ditch. We've seen this picture earlier on Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 11 00:22:13 I'll talk a little bit about the mechanical drag system. This is needed in this permit, for this renewal. CPI requested to include wash water. And what they're doing is, you know, they're taking mechanical drag chain —drag chain system and washing it with a pressure washer. And it amounts to a maximum of maybe 17,000 gallons in a given year, or if they have any in one given year at all. And maybe twice a year, at most. That's a mechanical drag chain, part of it. That's a new one they have stored in the yard on pallets, to give you an idea of what we're talking about, a drag chain. So it just drags the bottom ash out of it [ph]. 00:23:00 So this is where —this is inside the building. And I showed you a diagram of what it looked like. So you have the boilers up here, and the bottom ash comes out through here, and is quenched [ph], and the drag chain pulls it out. And as it goes up this conveyor, it's dewatered, so it's very little water involved. This is where the bottom ash comes out, and it's scooped up, and put on a truck, and taken to a landfill. 00:23:31 This is the pressure washer I was talking about. It sits on the back of a semi -trailer. So it's heavy-duty industrial. So they're just, you know, doing some maintenance. That's what that 17,000- gallon addition. 00:23:46 And this diagram shows a little bit of the solids handling, you know, for the coal ash. So the fly ash is also —is taken to a Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 12 silo by vacuum, and it's handled along with the bottom ash, and trucked off in a trailer. So there's no coal ash stored at this facility. It's taken to an approved landfill off site. 00:24:13 Outfall 002 is a cooling tower blowdown, and there's — we're monitoring for flow, pH, free available chlorine, chromium, and zinc. Here's the cooling towers. And here's the close-up picture of them. 00:24:35 Outfall 004 is the RO—yeah, this reverse osmosis, so there's a lot more parameters we're looking at here, that are included in our water treatment plant strategy that I applied to this permit, as well as the limits for TSS, and oil and grease, and pH. Another [ph] look at the powerhouse. So the RO system is down at the bottom. You see those two storage tanks at the very bottom, that building between them, that's where it's located. And another look at the basin [ph], it comes in at Outfall 004 there. It discharges to the sediment base. 00:25:13 And this is Outfall 003. This is the final outfall. We've added some additional monitoring and continuous flow monitoring to get an idea of what their total flow is. So that's a change for this permit. We added toxicants, including zinc, copper, nickel, chromium. A couple of those showed up and we asked them —we rerated this permit as a major. So they're required to fill out the Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 13 EPA form for a major permit. And that included also doing a pollutant scan. 00:25:42 And based on that pollutant scan, we added these toxicants, these metals. And we also added a pollutant scan that's a requirement once per permit cycle. In previous permit versions, they were able to waive it based on chemical usage at the plant. But now we're asking them to be a requirement once per permit [ph] to monitor any toxicants. 00:26:03 Another look at the overview of the facility, where it's going. A comment on a few footnotes that are conditions in the permit, and one [ph], every outfall requires no PCBs be discharged. PCBs were phased out in the late `70s for transformers. You see a transformer at this building behind the powerhouse. So there's no PCBs being stored there. There's no oil being stored there for transformers. There's active transformers in use. And that was listed among some of the activities in their application. And there were some concerns about that. 00:26:48 And then there's another footnote. In the final discharge there will be no floating solids or foam visible, trace amounts. And that's out there, their wastewater plant, there's —the pipe is underneath the channel, remember, so they can't really see what's coming out there, but they can see what's leaving their treatment plant, and they can note whether it has solids or foam visible there. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 14 00:27:14 Special conditions. If they want to use biocides to —you know, anti -scaling [ph] agents, you know, and anything preventing kind of growth of anything within the piping, within the boilers [ph], and things like that, then they have to request approval from us. And there's also electronic reporting requirement for this permit, and every permit we have now. 00:27:39 A little bit of information about, you know, wrapping up the public hearing today. Comment period closes on December the 23rd. Then the hearing officer before, maybe in January, we may have it together, and a final decision sometime before February 19th for this permit, to meet the 90 days. 00:28:01 So, again, my name is Derek Denard. My supervisor is John Hennessey. And here's our website. And I had —the most interesting about —the thing about the facility is how they offload chips [ph]. They have a —it's a lift that lifts the truck up and it falls off with all the woodchips in the back. That's it for me. And thank you for coming. 00:28:27 May: Thank you, Derek. Now that we have heard the presentation on the wastewater permit, I will now ask Lauren Garcia from the Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources to make a short presentation for the draft —make a short presentation for the draft stormwater permit, NCS000348. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 15 00:28:57 Garcia: Okay. So I am Lauren Garcia and I'm an environmental specialist with the Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources. And I'm the individual industrial permit writer. And that's my supervisor, Annette Lucas, right there. Okay. [TECHNICAL COMMENTS] 00:29:53 Garcia: I'm the environmental specialist with the Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources. And I'm in the individual industrial permit writer for this stormwater permit with —at CPI. 00:30:04 And so I'm going to talk about the —well, I'm going to give a stormwater permitting program overview, and then I'm going to talk about what's at the facility, even though Derek went over a lot of it already. And then I'm going to go through the draft stormwater permit. 00:30:21 So, stormwater is permitted through the Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources, and we really just say "DEMLR." But I'm in the stormwater program, which is broken up into these five programs, and I'm in the industrial program. And the NPDES is our National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, and we have three different kinds of permits in that program, which is the individual permit, the general permits, and a no exposure certification. And this is an individual permit. 00:30:54 So our NPDES program is federally mandated, and it covers a pretty wide variety of industrial activities. We determine Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 16 who is permitted by using the SIC Codes, the Standard Industrial Classification Codes. There are 11 federally regulated categories. And if the facility's SIC Code fits into one of those categories, then it has to be permitted for either the general permit, the individual permit, or the no exposure certification. 00:31:21 So the general permits, we have 21 different industrial general permits that cover stormwater discharges associated with industrial activities and construction. And some of those categories are things like metal fabrication, or food and kindred, landfills, and ready -mix concrete. The individual permits, which is what this is, are for the facilities that don't fit into those general categories. And then the no exposure certifications are for facilities that have a SIC Code that triggers permitting, but they don't have industrial materials in operations that are exposed to stormwater. So it's just supposed to be a building and a parking lot. 00:32:01 So, some important notes, after a facility is permitted, it is allowed to discharge stormwater as long as it follows the conditions of the permit. A stormwater permit is separate from a wastewater or air quality permit. So these permitsmy stormwater permits only pertain to stormwater. They are not for wastewater, or air quality, or other aspects of environmental Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 17 protection. Those are other divisions, like the Division of Air Quality, or Water Resources. This is a map of all of the general —well, all of our industrial permits within our program. So we're all over the place. 00:32:46 And so, the process starts —the facilities are not allowed to discharge stormwater without a permit. New facilities have to apply for a permit before they open. And existing facilities have to reapply [ph] for renewal every five years, because our general — our permit terms are for five years. 00:33:03 So, first, the facility has to complete an application form and provide us with very detailed descriptions, like facility activities, a list of industrial materials, chemicals, products, and things that will be exposed to rainwater. They also have to provide us with some pretty detailed maps that show drainage areas, and outfall, and things like that. So we use that information to create the permit. 00:33:27 For individual permits, I can require the facility to do extra things, like to install extra 13MPs [ph], or perform more frequent monitoring. It's just special things that the facility needs to monitor for that the general permits don't cover. 00:33:44 So CPI Southport is renewing a permit, which expired in 2015, which is okay. The permit allows them to continue to discharge under an expired permit if they apply for renewal within Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 18 180 days of the permit expiration. And they have to stay current with their annual permit fees. So the facility has to continue to operate under the conditions of the permit during this time. Because sometimes we just can't get to the renewal in time, and it just helps us keep everything regulated. 00:34:14 The renewal application asks for similar information to the EPA forms they have to use to apply for the permit. And the facility updates us with industrial changes, and they give us new maps, and information like that. 00:34:31 So, Derek gave you a pretty good overview of the facility already. But they burn a mixture of coal, tire -derived fuel, and wood residuals. The coal burning at the power plant has been reduced 90% because they also burn the tire -derived fuel and the wood residuals. The tires, they're waste tires, and they keep it out of the landfill, and then the wood residuals come from old rail ties that are chipped on site. 00:35:01 So, Derek went over this one, but I just wanted to show it as an example for the kinds of maps that they have to provide us in the applications. Because you can see here, the little squiggly lines, they show where all of the water —the stormwater is draining, wherever it falls on the site. And you can see also drainage areas, and there are all kinds of things like this in the applications. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 19 00:35:27 So, they have Representative Outfall Status. When they sample for stormwater from Representative Outfall 005, which I have marked as that red star over there —Representative Outfall Status is granted to facilities that have a single stormwater outfall that's representative of discharges from multiple outfalls. They have six outfalls in total at the site, and I have —so the orange ones are special because those are internal outfalls. 00:35:57 The facility is surrounded by a man-made ditch. It's basically a moat. And so all of the internal stormwater drains the stormwater to this man-made ditch, and it all leaves the site through Outfall 005. So all stormwater at the site leaves the outfall through outfall—or the site through Outfall 005. 00:36:21 And then I wanted to do this Price Creek clarification. The draft permit says that the facility discharges to Price Creek. But it was discovered during the renewal process that this was a mistake. Stormwater at the site does not discharge to Price Creek. It discharges through this Duke Energy effluent channel, which is the same place that the treated wastewater goes. The Duke Energy effluent channel, it's —the influent and effluent channel, it's about 9.6 miles long, and it discharges from a pipe that's 2,000 feet offshore into the Atlantic Ocean. 00:36:57 So, coal on the site. Materials potentially exposed to stormwater include the coal, wood residuals, the tire -derived duel, Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 20 petroleum products, limestone, and ash. And coal for the boiler plant is stored outside in the coal pile. The runoff is treated in the low -volume wastewater system prior to discharge. It does not drain to the stormwater system. And that's the same wastewater system that Derek just talked about. 00:37:29 It should be noted that stormwater runoff from the coal, and the wood, and the TDF files would never be permitted as a stormwater discharge. The runoff from those areas is wastewater. 00:37:41 Coal is brought in by a rail at the north end of the plant, and unloaded through a coal chute [ph], and transported by a conveyor to the coal pile. The risk of the coal dust entering the stormwater through other —does exist [ph], so they have BMPs, like vegetative buffers, and they also spray water to get rid of the coal dust. And then there's a lot of sweeping that goes on at the site. 00:38:04 So, I wanted to cover some —I wanted to show you some pictures so that you could see the conditions at the site. Oh, I needed . So the —before we go —limestone at the site, that is used as a part of their air pollution control system. And the limestone blowers and piping are sealed. And so it's not there's not really a risk of it being exposed to stormwater. Yes. 00:38:34 So that —oh, these are the wastewater channels. And I wanted you to be able to see how they contain all of the product on the far side. So these —it keeps it out of the wastewater channels Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 21 that take it to the treatment area. And then, like Derek said, on the other side of that is the stormwater. 00:39:01 So, that's a picture of the inside of the channel. And the these fencings do a pretty good job of keeping the product out of the wastewater channels. And then that's the wood chipping. And, oh, so, that is the silo that they keep the fly ash in. The fly ash are the light particles that come from combustion that are carried out with gas fumes and air. And it stays in there. It's totally enclosed in the ash silos, and they have systems in place to catch the ash residues. And then the fly ash is trucked off site. 00:39:38 And then this other picture is the bottom ash. And that — those are the heavy residuals left after the combustion process that Derek was talking about, where it falls to the bottom, and then it gets taken out by the drag chain. It doesn't leave this containment area. It's swept back over the lip, and it's scooped out and removed by truck. 00:40:04 And then these are two of the transformers that we saw on site. And their transformer oil is contained in the transformers that are in service. So there's not any other storage of the oil on site other than what's being used in the transformers. There's no PCB oil used on the site. And they have secondary containment, which is this grating [ph] right here under the transformers. And it's Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 22 supposed to catch —if there were to be a leak, it's supposed to be able to contain all of the oil that's in the transformer. 00:40:39 They also have a spill prevention control and countermeasure plan to prevent spills. And it outlines in that plan, they outline spill response. And they also have spill kits on site. 00:40:54 So, for the tire -derived fuel, that is a picture of where they have it stored on site. It's burned by those concrete blocks along the back. And TDF may spill from trucks on paved or gravel roads, and the truck dumpsters, the conveyors, and the radial stacker. So stormwater that flows over the access roads, it goes through a sand filter. And then stormwater from the berm [ph] to TDF storage area is diverted to the wastewater treatment basins. 00:41:24 The trucks are covered and tarped, or enclosed when not being loaded or unloaded. And the paved roads are swept. And then spilled materials are completely cleaned up. 00:41:34 So the switchyard, that's outlined in the red down there. It's located within the CPI site, but the switchyard is owned and maintained by Duke Energy. But the runoff from the switchyard does contribute to the stormwater runoff from the facility. But those transformers that are there are up in the air. So it's just running over a parking lot, basically. 00:42:00 So, CPI has contracted out a portion of their facility to National Salvage, which is a different company. They chip old Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 23 roadway ties on site for CPI to use in their fuel mixture. And we're in the process of determining the best way to permit this facility because they're a separate entity. 00:42:21 So, for the draft permit, you can go to our website, and the short way to get there is just to go to deq.nc.gov/stormwater [ph]. And it will take you to a page that looks a lot like this, and it has the same blue task bar on the side, and you want to click on "Stormwater Public Notices," and then you want to click where you're prompted, where it says "here," like the —right there, that is circled in the red. 00:42:50 So this will take you to our public hearing event page, where both the draft wastewater and the stormwater permits are available. And you'll be able to view the drafts online after the hearing. This page is also updated because I public —well, I'll talk about this later, but I public -notice all of my permits. And so you'll be able to click on them as they're updated. 00:43:15 And so, to issue or renew a permit, I contact the facility when the renewal process begins. I review the application. I look at all the monitoring data, the old staff reports, and other documents in our permit file. And I draft the permit based on the review. And then the draft permit goes out to the facility and the applicable regional office for a 30-day comment period. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 24 00:43:43 And Brain Lambe back there is our regional office contact. So that got sent to him, and then he went to do an inspection. So then the draft permit gets published in the newspaper and on our website for a 30-day comment period, which is where everyone here saw it. And then, if you get enough public interest, then we hold the public hearing. And then after all of that takes place, and we make changes to the draft permit based on the inspection and the comments from the facility, the staff, and the public. And then that all goes through a final internal review, and then my supervisor signs it. 00:44:28 So, this is the first page of the permit. And so theI wanted to take you through what it contains. The first part is the introduction, which is kind of standard. The meaty parts are in part two, which goes through monitoring, controls, limitations for permitted discharges. Part three is the standard conditions for NPDES stormwater and individual permits. And then part four is definitions. 00:44:58 So, the SWPPP, or the Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan, is exactly like it sounds. It's a pollution prevention plan for stormwater. And those are —that's broken up into different sections. The first part is the site overview, where they have to give us things like facility descriptions. And then there's a stormwater management strategy, spill prevention and response Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 25 procedures, preventative maintenance and good housekeeping, facility inspections —because they have to do their own facility inspections, and on top of the facility inspections that we do. There's employee training, responsible parties, annual update requirements, and SWPPP implementation. 00:45:38 So, the purpose of the SWPPP is for the facility to have an extensive plan for keeping the site as clean as possible, to prevent stormwater exposure to contamination. There's a lot of moving parts involved in keeping the facility clean, like employee training, the spill response, frequent inspections, and that's what that section of the permit is for. 00:45 :5 8 And then the permit also requires that the facility —or the facility has to continue to evaluate the feasibility of the SWPPP, and then they have to make updates. DEQ assesses compliance with the SWPPP during our facility inspections. 00:46:17 So, DEQ uses the information provided in the application and our observations during the site inspections to determine sampling parameters. And the permitting includes requirements for when the facility can sample, how and by who. Samples are taken semi-annually, and the facility turns in those analytical results to us in a discharge monitoring report. 00:46:40 If there is not a measurable storm event in the six-month time frame, then the facility can also —they submit a report to us Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 26 where there's no discharge. And I included that because I'm going to show you the —all of the monitoring data. And if it just doesn't have two monitoring events for one year, it's because they were able to put "no discharge." 00:47:01 So, over there —I don't know why it's cut off on the end. The —so those are all the parameters that this facility has to sample for every time that they take a stormwater sample. And then those are our benchmarks that they're measuring those samples against. 00:47:16 The benchmarks are determined by the Division of Water Resource's planning section. And because of the sporadic nature of rainfall, acute short-term effects to aquatic organisms are considered when establishing those benchmarks. They're not effluent limits [ph] —they're a tool for facilities to assess the significance of pollutants in the stormwater discharges, and to assess the effectiveness of the SWPPPs best management practices. 00:47:42 And you will see here that some of the benchmarks are listed as "NA." And then this is because we don't have adequate data available to set benchmarks for these parameters where these —this place —discharges into saltwater. As new data becomes available, the benchmarks can be established, and we allwe have all the data for the facility then to compare. DEQ Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 27 monitors the sampling data also for spikes that would indicate an issue with the site. 00:48:10 And so this is the sampling data for the entire permit term. Well, actually, it's more —because it's from 20oh, no, it is. Okay. 2010 to 2019. And I color -coded it because even though we have the NA benchmarks for saltwater, I wanted to —you to see that what our benchmarks for freshwater are, and so that you can see that they're not really exceeding those. 00:48:38 We're also working right now with DWR to see if we can update some of these NA benchmarks. And also, some of the benchmarks anyway since 2013 have been updated. And we have been able to update a few of them, but the data is still being reviewed. And, well, I think we —don't we get to make this PowerPoint available on the —yes. So you'll be able to go online and see —or it's also in the permit online, where —well, what they have to sample for. 00:49:09 A lot of it has to do with what's on site, like the coal, and the TDF, and the zinc. And then there are some other things, like total suspended solids. But it's so that they can tell if any of that is in their stormwater. 00:49:22 So, if there is an exceedance, we have a system built into the permit for the facility to follow, to address and identify and prevent future benchmark exceedances. So after one, you have — Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 28 you're in a Tier I, where you have to —and this is the shortened version. It's a lot more extensive in the actual permit. But you have to basically conduct an inspection, identify the source of the exceedance, find ways to fix the issue, implement those changes, and then you have to report it [ph] in the SWPPP. 00:49:53 Tier II, after you have two exceedances, it immediately triggers monthly monitoring for every outfall, where each consecutive exceedance occurred. And then you also have to repeat the steps for Tier I. Monthly monitoring continues until three consecutive samples are below the benchmark values. And then if you have more, then you're in Tier III, where the facility has to report it to the regional office, and then function under the new requirements of the Tier III, which is things like implementing stormwater control measures, sampling for additional or substitute parameters, implementing site modifications, and things like that. 00:50:28 That is the meatiest part of the stormwater permit. So the remaining parts can be reviewed online. Part III is a lot of standard language, and it's really similar to our general permits. And then Part IV is definitions. And then that, again, is the website where you can go to look at everything. And then that's my contact information. 00:50:58 May: Thank you, Lauren. That concludes the division's presentation. At this time, we will hear from audience members who have Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 29 signed up to speak. I will call on those who signed up to speak. We will make effort to hear from all who have signed up. So please make your way to the podium as quickly and efficient as possible to ensure that we are able to hear from as many people as possible who have signed up within the time allowed. 00:51:26 There will be a three -minute time limit for providing comments. Again, there will be a three -minute time limit for providing comments. Staff will keep track of the time and raise a sign to indicate when you have one minute left, 30 seconds left, and when your time is up. 00:51:44 Comments should be concluded when your time is up. Speakers are encouraged to provide a written copy of their comments. Cross-examination of speakers will not be allowed. However, I may ask questions for clarification. We ask that everyone respect the right of others to speak without interruption. 00:52:05 To ensure that everyone has a clear view of the proceedings, we ask that you refrain from waving signs inside the meeting area. If anyone has a sign, we ask that you place it along the wall at the conclusion of the hearing so we can take photos to include as part of the hearing record. 00:52:23 I will now call speakers in the order that they registered. To ensure that our records are accurate, please clearly state your name, and if applicable, the organization you are representing. In Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 30 addition, we ask that you identify other associations you may have that have bearing on your input tonight. For example, if you are appearing on your own behalf, but have obtained information from or provided research to another group that is interested in this matter, please indicate so. And thank you for your cooperation. 00:52:56 And just a quick safety comment, as speakers come up, just be mindful of the cords up around the podium, and be careful to not trip. 00:53:17 May: So our first speaker that we have tonight —and apologies if I mispronounce anybody's name but —Carol Kozlowski [ph]. 00:53:36 Kozlowski: Good evening. My name is Carol Kozlowski. My husband Peter and I own a home that backs up to Price's Creek and Capital Power. 00:53:45 I understand that the purpose of this meeting tonight is to discuss the renewal of CPI's permits to discharge wastewater into the Atlantic Ocean, and I thought, stormwater into Price's Creek, but that has been corrected. So everything goes to the Atlantic Ocean. 00:54:02 I would ask that you strengthen their permit request to better protect our residents and our water. I feel it is also very important to discuss the ash that is emitted from the plant. The ash is a direct result of CPI's burning of tires and railroad ties. The ash is visible on our outdoor furniture, our pool, the exterior of our Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 31 home, our sidewalks. And I know this is not just an issue exclusive to our neighborhood, but also in surrounding neighborhoods. And depending on the way the wind blows, even residents of other areas in Southport are affected. 00:54:40 In the summer of 2016, the Environmental Management Commission granted the plant a special order of consent. A facility can be granted a special order of consent if it is consistently unable to comply with the terms, conditions, or limitations in a National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System permit. CPI's Southport plant's special order of consent will expire in December of 2020. 00:55:15 I cannot imagine that CPI's discharge into the water and air are safe for us or the environment. In addition to these impacts on our air and water, operations at CPI make constant noise. When CPI opens their vents, it sounds like a jet engine taking off, and the noise can go on for hours. Have you examined the impact that the sound pollution has on local wildlife populations? 00:55:43 Furthermore, the noise generated [ph] by CPI, in addition to this visible ash, is detrimental to our property's value. I respectfully ask that you consider all the ways CPI is polluting our environment when making your decision on renewal. I personally believe if CPI cannot meet the standards, the best solution for the residents of Southport would be closure of this plant. Thank you. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 32 [APPLAUSE] May: Our next speaker is Mr. Edward Dazewiezri [ph]. M: [INDISCERNIBLE] 00:56:27 Dazewiezri: Hi. My name is Ed Dazewiezri. I live on 128 Northwest Street [ph] in Oak Island. I'm here because I'm concerned, period. If I ramble, I apologize. But here we have a plant that is almost like a third -world country plant. It's burning tires. It's burning coal. And it's burning wood. The presentation over here is very representative of how we're trying to control what's going on to be going on over there. But how do we enforce and how do we guarantee that all these things are going to be in place? 00:57:06 I worry that if something happens, you know, we could easily change a time when an effluent is checked or something like that. And we're measuring total suspended solids, but what are those total suspended solids? We have 26 areas here —I mean, areas where we're concerned about 26 pollutants. But in the article that I read, the item I read, it says —let me see. Hold on. Yeah, here we go. 00:57:38 Number 18 on a letter from —to David Groves from Derek Denard. And it's Item 18. It says, "Monitoring for 126 priority pollutants has been changed from grab sampling to composite sampling. The frequency for monitoring has been reduced to once Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 33 per permit cycle." Now, to me, that sounds like once every five years, but I'm not sure. 00:58:07 And also, it says that, you know —it sounds like a lot of the monitoring is going to have be done by the company itself. And I don't know what you guys do as far as monitoring them with audits, or surprise inspections, or things like that. And I'm just concerned. I just don't have any faith in the system because we get our water supply from the Cape Fear River. And Chemours [ph] has promised the world that it's not going to be dumping chemicals in there. And as a result to that, we have to resort to Brunswick County to putting in a reverse -osmosis system to eliminate the pollutants that put —they're putting into the river. 00:58:54 It would seem to me we should be more source -concerned than end -user -concerned [ph]. And I heavily believe that this has to be monitored and kept an eye on. And relying on you people to keep us safe. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] May: Mr. William North. 00:59:19 North: First of all, I don't enjoy talking before a group. Mike [ph], could you bring that up please? My name is William North. I live in Price's Creek, the Cottages at Price's Creek, with my wife Penelope. We've been there —thank you —we've been there three years. When we first came to Southport, we were dealing with a Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 34 the fallout from a fly ash release from the plant in late 2017. It covered very large areas of our community, well into Southport itself. The company was not forthcoming in telling us about this event, or the nature of the contaminant that was falling on our homes. They said it was fly ash, and then they stuck to their story. 01:00:11 It was greasy. It was adhesive. It was hard to remove with detergent. It wasn't just fly ash. And it smelled bad. We never had a determination on what that stuff was. They said it was a small release. I asked at the meeting with the mayor, "What do you mean by small release?" I was told, "Four or five tons of fly ash." We can't trust CPI to be straightforward with their information. 01:00:42 The noise levels at the plant, as been addressed [ph], are very bad. It's, like, we live half a mile from the plant. It's like living near a freeway. It's constant drone of that plant day and night, punctuated by when they run the chipper. The chipper sounds like it's in your backyard. It's —you can't have conversations inside your house or on your porch when the chipper is running. And worst of all is the release of high-pressure steam. When they vent this high-pressure steam, it literally sounds like a jet engine is adjacent to your house. And this has been addressed, also. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 35 01:01:23 The smell that comes from that plant, it smells like petrochemical. It could be tire residue. It could be creosote from the railroad ties. Whatever it is, if you smell something, you ingest whatever that is. If you can smell it, it's entering your body. Whatever it is, I have a hunch it's not good for people, or animals, or plants. It has to be addressed. That smell that comes from the plant is constant whenever the wind comes from the northeast toward our house. 01:01:57 The chemicals being released by the plant are worrisome [ph]. We've had a good presentation of what they are. I'll just say that if you allow a company, no matter what their resources are, to monitor themselves, to be in compliance with regulations —look at Boeing aircraft. [APPLAUSE] One of our best corporations, one of the most highly respected corporations in this county, maybe in the world, and look at the mess they're in because the government let them certify their test results. 01:02:32 The issue about our wastewater runoff into Price's Creek, I'm glad that was resolved. It is not an issue. I would like to say that if you go onto Facebook, there are photographs of the area underneath the filter. [INAUDIBLE] May: If you have a bag, you can leave that at the back for a photograph at the end. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 36 North: Okay. M: What is it? 01:03:04 North: Okay. This is what gets wiped off our porches every day. It is fallout from the plant [ph]. M: All right. F: [INDISCERNIBLE] [APPLAUSE] May: Our next speaker is Nick Jimenez. 01:03:26 Jimenez: Hi. Thank you all. I'm Nick Jimenez from the Southern Environmental Law Center. We've submitted some written comments on the draft permits on behalf of Cape Fear River Watch, Coastal Federation, Sierra Club, and Brunswick Environmental Action Team. 01:03:40 I want to thank you first for having this and for bringing so many folks down here. ThisI found the presentations incredibly helpful. I guess I want to cover a couple of highlights from our concerns, and one that I don't think that we fully covered in our written comments, that maybe we'll submit in this new comment period. 01:03:55 The first is the testing. So CPI, in the DMRs that we reviewed, did not submit a DMR for Outfall 003, based on the permit filed that —as we saw it. And the permit limits that they have been testing for, of course, are the old permits, dating from Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 37 2011. We learned from Mr. Denard today that there was a pollutant scan when the was properly redesignated to major NPDES [ph], which is great. We didn't understand that from the permit review until now. F: Can you speak up? 01:04:27 Jimenez: Sorry about that. I'm trying to get through a lot. But based on that designation, we believe that the facility needs to retest for primary industry pollutants under regulations. We believe it's also subject to whole effluent toxicity testing and that a primary pollutant analysis should be done before this permit is finalized. 01:04:50 As far as best available technology, as I'm sure you all are aware, that for steam -electric power generation, the effluent limitation guidelines are zero discharge, no discharge for bottom ash transport water. But it appears that some of the water from the —washing out the drag chain pit is going into the settling ponds, and then into the canal. 01:05:13 And the new issue that I don't think we really teed up in our written comments so far is the removed substances provision, which a standard NPDES provision, and is in the draft permit. That says pollutants removed in the course of treatment shall be utilized or disposed of in accordance with NC General Statute 143- 215.1, and in a manner to prevent any pollutants from such materials from entering the waters of the state, except as Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 38 authorized by the permit. This permit, of course, doesn't authorize bottom ash solids going into the canal, and it's a little clearer after these presentations, but it appears that that could be the case. So we also have that concern. 01:05:51 And I guess the last concern is touching on stormwater. So it was very helpful to learn that the stormwater is not going into Price Creek. That's great. We do still have concern about the depth of those ditches and what happens when you get severe rain in this area. Our understanding is that the permit limits are based on a 10-year rainfall event, which is set at about seven -and -a -half inches, but we're seeing excess of that every year lately. 01:06:19 And —we were a little unsure whether PCBs are in the existing transformer oil, and it —on the permit review, it appeared that there was not full secondary containment. It sounds like there aren't PCBs, and there is full containment, which I'm glad to hear is the case. There are a lot of other substances stored on site that are concernmg. 01:06:40 So, given the extent of the rains we've been having, we are —a review of the Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan, which as we understand it, is not submitted to the state. It's kept on site and is simply supposed to be up to standards, although it is a public document. So we would urge publicizing that and giving it a good look. Thank you. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 39 [APPLAUSE] May: Kerri Allen. [INAUDIBLE] 01:07:09 Allen: Good evening. My name is Kerri Allen and I am the coastal advocate for the southeast region of the North Carolina Coastal Federation. We are a nonprofit organization dedicated to protecting and restoring our coast. And we currently represent over 16,000 members throughout the state. 01:07:36 We are here tonight asking you to strengthen CPI's permits. We recognize the significant efforts that have gone into these draft permits, and the improvements that have been made. However, far too much is still unknown. 01:07:49 After reviewing the draft wastewater permit, it is clear that there is not enough information provided to fully evaluate the total impacts that discharges from CPI have on the natural and economic health of the region. Before we can protect our residents, we must fully understand what is being mixed into near - shore [ph] waters up and down our coast. 01:08:08 As we've learned tonight, CPI produces close to 400,000 gallons of wastewater a day, including nearly three300,000 gallons of processed water. The discharge from the facility contains contaminants associated with bottom ash transport water, as well as coal, wood, and tire -derived fuel pile runoff. Coal ash Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 40 contaminants, which include arsenic, mercury, lead, and cadmium, to name a few, pose serious health risks, as does ash from adulterated [ph] and creosote -treated wood. 01:08:35 In addition to the fuel piles, a wide variety of materials at the facility are exposed to precipitation. Of greatest concern is approximately 20,000 gallons of transformer oil, which often contains PCBs. I understand tonight, that may or may not be the case. These materials are harmful if released into the environment, and the threat of release grows each year as climate change makes severe storms more frequent and more severe. 01:08:57 In order to strengthen the draft permit, we ask DEQ to require CPI to test its wastewater and set limits in this permit, based on test results. As well as prohibit CPI from discharging bottom ash transport water. 01:09:10 Per the Clean Water Act, polluters must control their discharges using the best available technology. As shown in SELC's analysis, better wastewater treatment is technologically and economically achievable. The burden of providing sufficient evidence to reasonably ensure that the proposed [ph] system will comply with all applicable water quality standards falls on the permit holder, and DEQ, as they are under clear obligation to use this information to protect public health and the environment. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 41 01:09:36 We thank you for your time and for the opportunity to present these comments. We are confident that DEQ will continue to work to strengthen these permits in order to fully address the environmental and public health concerns to ensure the protection of our residents and coastal resources. [APPLAUSE] May: Thank you. Ms. Deborah Ahlers. 01:10:01 Ahlers: Good evening. I'm Deborah Ahlers and I'm the mayor of the Town of Caswell Beach. And I have to say one thing that although we're very happy that Price's Creek is not receiving the stormwater, it concerns me that now we know that both the discharge from the wastewater and the stormwater are going in front of the beaches at Caswell Beach. 01:10:28 The Town of Caswell Beach wishes to thank the staff at the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality Division of Water Resources for allowing the town to submit comments on the proposed wastewater permit application for CPI USA, North Carolina. We appreciate the hard work that you and your staff are doing and providing for the people of North Carolina. 01:10:47 Caswell Beach is located just a short distance from where the permits states that wastewater, and now we know stormwater, from CPI will be discharged into the Atlantic Ocean. Healthy town beaches and good recreational water quality are critical for Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 42 the Town of Caswell Beach. This summer, the population of Caswell more than quadrupled as tourists vacation in our town to enjoy our beaches and our clean ocean water. 01:11:10 After reading the draft permit application, Caswell Beach respects that —respectfully asks that North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality require that all chemicals that are reasonably expected in this discharge stream be identified and monitored as part of the required condition for permit approval. Caswell Beach also feels that limits should be placed on each potentially harmful chemical in the stream, and be restricted as necessary, to preserve the health of our community and of our environment. 01:11:40 Caswell Beach has no interest in causing our corporate neighbors any undue regulatory burdens. We do, however, feel that it is our obligation to know what chemicals are in the discharge stream, and that those chemicals are regulated and limited. We trust that CPI and the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality will work to assure the residents and visitors of Caswell Beach that the discharge stream will not pose any hazards to our town or to our waters. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] And we thank you for the opportunity. May: Peter Key. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 43 01:12:23 Key: Good afternoon. My name is Peter Key. I'm the president of Brunswick Environmental Action Team. Brunswick Environmental Action Team thanks the staff for the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality for allowing comments to be submitted on the proposed permit application for CPI USA. We appreciate the hard work that you do, and that your staff provides for the health and safety for the citizens of North Carolina. 01:12:55 BEAT is a group of Brunswick County residents whose mission is to embrace and support conservation and protection of the environment as core values in personal, business, and governmental decision -making. The objective is to enhance, preserve, and maintain the Brunswick County living experience. We have frequently come alongside local government agencies to bring healthy and safe alternatives to challenging environmental issues in our county. 01:13:19 Methods such as the methyl bromide situation up in Columbus County. We worked with the Town of Sunset Beach in in the Jinks Creek project down there. We're currently working on this one, and also working with Southport on their wastewater treatment facility that is planned to be located in a flood zone. Yes. 01:13:40 Because we support a healthy and safe environment for our residents, we are very concerned when we learned that CPI USA Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 44 was requesting a permit to dispose of toxic bottom ash in the ocean, directly off Caswell Beach, where our families and the families of tens of thousands of North Carolinians recreate each year. We are also concerned about the impacts these activities may have on the ocean ecosystems and wildlife. 01:14:01 We have read that the toxic chemicals CPI USA is dumping are diluted to levels not harmful to humans, and yet, the vacationing tourists knew that —if vacationing tourists knew that these chemicals were being dumped at unknown times of the year, they may be inclined to go elsewhere. This would endanger the economy we have built from tourism on the southeastern shores of North Carolina. Therefore, we feel that no level of bottom ash dumping is acceptable. 01:14:25 After reading the draft permit application, BEAT [ph] respectfully requests that the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality reject the application to discharge these toxic compounds into the ocean. Instead, since as the permit states, only 17,000 gallons a year are discharged, and a typical full- sized tanker truck is 11,000 gallons, CPI USA should be required to capture the effluent and ship it via tanker truck to a disposal facility similar to what Duke Energy is doing with their own coal ash. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 45 01:14:52 Two tanker truck's loads can't be too much of a burden on a company as large as Capital Power. We believe that none of this waste product should be allowed to reach the public when such an easy alternative exists. We believe that ADM and Duke Energy, our other large corporations [ph] are good neighbors who do a lot of good in our communities. We support them in the endeavor to make Brunswick County a great place to live and play. 01:15:15 In light of some of the comments that we have heard tonight, I would like to add the additional comment. It seems like we've cleared up and created some other confusion and incongruencies. And my suggestion would be that CPI USA host a tour of the facility with local leadership. That includes the towns of Oak Island, Caswell Beach, Southport, local news agencies, and any other interested parties, so that they can show people what they do at the facility, how it works, and how it relates with the permit process. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] May: Lynn Baker [ph]. 01:15:53 Baker: Good evening. I also was an environmental specialist for the New York Department Environmental Conservation, shellfish division [ph]. So I'm kind of familiar with what we're talking about tonight. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 46 01:16:22 First it was GenX toxic compounds that have been discharged into our river for years. These poison our drinking water and the health of marine life in our waters. Then they lowered the standards of the Clean Water Act. And then we have the threat of drilling off of our shores. Now we find out that a power plant, CPI, one that very few people even are aware it exists, is releasing wastewater containing toxic chemicals to the Atlantic off Caswell Beach. 01:17:02 DEQ is the lead stewardship agency for the protection of North Carolina environmental resources, including air quality, water quality, and public health. It states on its website that it encourages responsible behavior with respect to the environment, it enhances and ensures our quality of life. 01:17:28 So, how is it that DEQ allows anyone to dump large quantities of any toxic chemical into our waterways? Only six football fields off the beach at Caswell, only to be washed up on the next high tide. How is that okay? Four hundred thousand gallons of wastewater a day, including bottom ash. This is not an insufficient amount. Bottom ash is a byproduct of coal combustion and has beenI'm sorry. I can't read my own writing. [LAUGHTER] And has been added to the facilities wastewater since the plant's last permit renewal. Added after the renewal. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 47 01:18:20 DEQ does not know what CPI is emitting [ph]. These pollutants should be identified before issuing a new permit. Right now, the Clean Water Act requirements only apply to one waste stream, and this plant has several. 01:18:37 The new —the North Carolina Senate has made it clear that they are out to protect the interest of big business, not the health of constituents of North Carolina. The Southern Environmental Legal Center has asked for a detailed analysis of the waste before issuing a permit. Why doesn't DEQ know what is in the wastewater? And if it does know, why don't we? Is this the legacy we want to leave behind? A toxic stew of incinerated tires, creosote -treated lumber, and coal. 01:19:15 Enough. DEQ, do your job. Protect us, don't protect CPI. No coal ash discharge. No renewal until we know the full scope of May: Baker: [APPLAUSE] May: 01:19:43 Wilkins: M/F: Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com what exactly is in the — Thank you. wastewater and storm runoff. I'm done [ph]. Emily Wilkins [ph]. I'm Emily Wilkins. I'm representing myself. I am a resident of Caswell Beach. Louder [ph]. NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 48 01:19:56 Wilkins: Okay. I will. [LAUGHTER] Thank you for providing this forum so that I have the opportunity to ask you to please protect us from industrial waste and pollution in our environment. Also, I'm here to invite you, any of the representatives of DEQ here tonight, to join me at 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning at a site where you will get a personal feel for life at Caswell Beach, and where the overview of the map —be in that environment [ph]. 01:20:35 Caswell Beach is a small town of 400. It sits on the east end of Oak Island. And you can see from this vantage point that I invite you to join me, the beach, the dunes, the maritime forest that abuts the beach, and the beach road. From this spot, I am confident that you can make a better informed decision if you see for yourself the Duke Energy canal, see where it actually —the discharge pipe goes under the beach road, then under the beach, and under the sea, to discharge within easy eyesight just off the shore. 01:21:17 From this vantage point, you can see the disturbance in the ocean water where the discharge enters the ocean. You may see boats there, at that warm spot in the water. The fish caught in that spot have long fed families in Brunswick County. On warm days, you would surely see children and families on the beach enjoying wading in the water and fishing. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 49 01:21:43 You can see this and more from the deck of the Tom Hess crossover. If you cannot come —one of you said your wife required you to be home tonight. But if you cannot come tomorrow morning, perhaps you can envision this place, that counts on you, your expertise, your oversight, and your monitoring. And your job and decision -making is making so important. We depend on you for protection from more environmental damage and dangers to our area. 01:22:22 My name is Emily Wilkins. I will meet you tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. on Caswell Beach Road, at the intersection with Oceangreens Lane, at the Tom Hess crossover to the beach. Please join me. [APPLAUSE] May: Joe Hatem. [APPLAUSE] 01:22:57 Hatem: I'm mightily impressed to see all y'all here tonight. Thank you for being here. And I want to thank DEQ for this presentation. I came here to learn. So as you speak, I take notes. I've learned so much in a very short period of time, so I thank you all for that. 01:23:20 I just wanted toI'm just going to read two quotes. One is from my campaign in 2015. As you know, I ran several times. [LAUGHTER] But this is from 2015, and the reason I'm reading this is because my platform was for the health of the city, and this Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 50 was in particular, the health of our environment. "Southport is blessed with the maritime forest, gorgeous live oaks, the beautiful Cape Fear River flowing into the Atlantic Ocean. The Intracoastal Waterway, creeks, and marshes, and all need to be preserved and protected, allowing these habitats to thrive. 01:23:59 "We will promote public health measures that provide clean water and clean air, and ally with county, state, and federal agencies, as well as conservation groups, to enhance our environmental treasures." 01:24:12 Most people when they read that, they thought that that was probably the least important part of the platform. But I tried to tell them, you had to vigilant. No, maybe we didn't know about GenX in 2015, and we certainly —I didn't know until recently, that Capital Power was putting that effluent into the Duke canal and it's going out to Caswell Beach. 01:24:36 The it —the other thing that is so impressive is the engineering aspect of this. I mean, you think of the power plant there, you think of ADM, think of CPI. If they have the technology to have these plants there, they have the technology so there will be zero emissions from that plant. [APPLAUSE] It's in our water. It's in our lungs. It's in your children, it's —your pets, in our plants. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 51 01:25:09 The second quote is from a professor at UNC School of Public Health. "Everyone is impacted by air pollution. But our exposure is far more complicated than what we knew before. What we are trying to investigate and highlight is what are the true drivers of toxicity in the atmosphere. Not only the atmosphere, but in our water, in the ground." I mean, we still don't know the full ramifications of what we're being exposed to. The stuff that you're wiping off your cars, you can't wipe it out of your lungs. So we have to be vigilant. 01:25:58 The other thing that I just want to say briefly, I did not realize, is 1.9 billion gallons a day coming out of Duke power plant, including that effluent. That's pretty impressive. And Karen [ph], we thought we had an issue with 750,000 in the sewer plant. So we —that really pales compared to that. 01:26:20 But I'm here as a physician. I'm here as mayor -elect. I want to hear from you at the next board of alderman meeting. We want to look into this. I'm happy to go out to the plant and look around and inspect [ph]. And anything I can do as mayor and as a physician, we will do to protect our environment and protect our citizens. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] May: Karen Mosteller [ph]. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 52 01:27:00 Mosteller: Thank you so much for being here and having this forum. A lot of well -learned people have spoken about the science, and I just wanted to make just a couple of comments. 01:27:15 One, I just, from a stormwater perspective, I just wanted to make sure that y'all were aware that a couple years ago we had a fire there, and so our fire department responded, and it took about 14 hours to put it out. And it was woodchips and creosote mixed. And they ultimately had to sort of spread it out away from the chopped -up tires so they didn't catch on fire. 01:27:39 So water —of course, a lot of water was in that process of putting out that fire. And so I know that becomes stormwater-ish runoff. And so I just want to make sure that sort of —kind of the conversation is also factored in because that is something besides just the toxicity of what goes into the air. 01:27:58 And then, I —one thing I also wanted to say was —and I have —I think this is the air quality report, or study, but in it, it talks about —one of the things it says is that our area is classified as rural. And with all these people here, we're not really what rural —rural conjures up it's out where no people live. These people live right up against where this is. And I just want to make sure that as guidelines are being applied, that in `87, when this plant was built, none of us lived that close to that. And it's a very different environment. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 53 01:28:41 So I just wanted to also mention that. And again, thank you. Thank you for being here. [APPLAUSE] May: Chap Haddon [ph]. 01:29:02 Haddon: Good evening. My name is Chap Haddon. I'm a resident of the City of Southport and live in the Turtlewood subdivision, which is a neighbor to CPI, right next door. I'm here tonight to first thank you for taking the time to open up and allow us to speak to you about this, but also, to express some concerns for not only today, which this permits attests to, but tomorrow. I think we've asked some of the questions that are pertinent to what we need to understand today. 01:29:37 But what is the impact for tomorrow? And to understand that, you need to really look back into the past. Now, I've asked the question is [ph], what is in the cooling canal today? This permit addresses how much goes out. And if I add up 32 years' worth of bottom ash, that would be about 544,000 gallons, if I understand, if my math is correct. That's a significant amount of material that could still be in the bottom of that canal. 01:30:02 Although it was pointed out to me tonight that that swift water going through there, the accumulation and the biology of that area, it could be fairly significant, and we really need to Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 54 understand that to make a significant decision on what we do going forward. 01:30:17 The plant was also built in 1987. And with that in mind, it was built with 1987 standards for pollution control. And as the time goes on, have we updated those standards to what we can do today in both processes, and procedures, and equipment? 01:30:33 I ask you to clearly take a look at that for the future of our children, our grandchildren that will be living here. I do agree with Karen, as she states that this is no longer a rural area. We set closer than Price's Creek, closer than Arbor Oaks. And I will attest to the fact that we do have to clean our houses fairly frequently. Our cars are coated in materials. I've even been in the City of Southport and seen it there. And we need to understand what is in the materials. Not in —only the water, but also in the air. 01:31:09 As Dr. Hatem pointed out, what we breathe into our lungs can clearly impact us, and could be significant to both the elderly population, and also to the young people. 01:31:20 Again, I thank you for your time and taking the time to be here, to listen to us, and allow us to express our concerns, as well as to look at what we need to do in the future. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] May: Lora Sharkey. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 55 01:31:42 Sharkey: Good evening. I'm Lora Sharkey. And first, I want to say thank you to Lauren and Annette [ph] for the very productive conversation we had last Friday. I appreciate it. You answered some of the questions that you've addressed here tonight, but I got it first-hand, about discharges, and PCBs, and other concerns that I had. So thank you very much for that conversation. 01:32:12 I am Lora Sharkey. I am a resident of Southport, North Carolina, and I'm an elected official for the City of Southport. I am here on behalf of the Southport Board of Aldermen to provide feedback on the proposed NPDES stormwater permit for Capital Power. 01:32:28 While the CPI power plant does not sit within Southport city limits, there are city neighborhoods and an assisted living facility in close proximity to CPI, and we feel it is our responsibility to participate in this public hearing. 01:32:45 The plant —these comments are not indicative of any dislike for CPI or its employees. The plant has been supportive [ph] of Southport in the face of hardship, particularly dealing with hurricanes, and most particularly, Hurricane Florence. These comments are simply intended to express the desire to see the best practices adopted, to protect the well-being of our residents, the waters we swim in, collect food from, and simply appreciate. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 56 01:33:13 It is public knowledge that CPI plant is permitted to burn a variety of materials as fuel in the creation of steam and electricity. These materials include shredded tires, woodchips, railroad ties, and some coal. Combustion of these materials result in ash that contains contaminants that will be hazardous to the water and soil if not adequately treated or removed from the wastewater before disposal. 01:33:40 The City of Southport requests that CPI be required to monitor contaminant levels and treat their stormwater and wastewater discharges in a manner that meets or exceeds water quality standards set forth in the Clean Water Act. 01:33:54 Additionally, the city requests that CPI be tasked with improving containment of contaminated stormwater during flood conditions. There's a statewide effort to direct and guide all municipalities in flood -prone areas to become more resilient in the face of climate change and increased rainfall amounts during storm events. This proactive stance should also be applied to industry to safeguard [ph] human health. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] 01:34:33 May: Well, at this time, we've heard from those that have registered to speak. I would ask at this time if there's anybody else that did not register who wishes to provide comment? Yes, sir? And if you would, please state your name when you speak. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 57 01:34:53 Webb: My name is Tom Webb [ph]. I am a —new kids on the block. Peggy and I are new residents here. We've been here about two months. And I just want to say that we live a little bit farther away than we've heard from some other folks. But I've still been woken up during the night when the grinding is going on. And clean my car on a regular basis. 01:35:24 And it's disturbing. We came here because Southport offered something totally unique. And I'm up here now because I'm on to put my mouth where my money is. And I've been contributing to environmental action groups all my life. And I finally have to get up and say enough is enough. 01:35:50 So, the two things that stood out to me were the stormwater collection. It doesn't seem like it would take a whole lot to figure out how much of a storm would have [ph] for it to overflow. And I've heard about Florence. I was wondering whether there's been any looking at what really happened at the plant when we received 35, 40 inches of rain. And that chance is increasing all the time, from what we hear. 01:36:20 The other thing that got my attention, time and time again, from what I saw —at least this is how I interpreted it —that a lot of the information comes from CPI itself. [LAUGHTER] And I don't know what —it doesn't seem like the energy companies in this country are all that honest these days. So if, in fact, we are getting Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 58 our information from them, and basing a permit on what they're telling us, can we be proactive and do testing to find out whether they're facts are, in fact, facts, not made up? So. Thanks for the opportunity, and we have a lot of trust in you, so please honor it. Okay. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] M: question, comment [ph]. May: If there's another speaker, you're welcome to come. And again— M: [INDISCERNIBLE] May: If you would, please state your name and who you might be affiliated with. 01:37:39 Yarb: My name is Bud Yarb and I'm a resident of the Landing [ph]. I'm affiliated with myself and my family. [LAUGHTER] And I just have a couple of comments. 01:37:48 One, and this goes probably to Dr. Hatem back there [ph]. I'd be very interested in looking at the statistics for upper respiratory infections in the Southport region. I'd also be very interested in looking at the number of brain tumors in the Southport area because we have some friends that have come down with brain tumors, and there's one location within the city that has a preponderance for brain tumors. 01:38:13 And thirdly, I'd like to know if CPI and the organizations ever submitted a risk assessment to your organization or anyone Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 59 else. Or if you have a risk assessment for CPI and ADM. Are you familiar with the required risk assess —requirements for these companies? 01:38:37 May: Right now I would apologize, but we're —this isn't a question -and - answer session. Yarb: [INDISCERNIBLE] May: But that's something that we could follow up on [ph]. Yarb: It's not a question. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much then. [APPLAUSE] May: Does anybody else wish to speak or provide comment? This gentleman on the front. 01:39:02 Jakus: Hi. My name is Bob J-A-K-U-S, Jakus. And I'm a citizen of Oak Island. And I'm also a person who works with the Brunswick Environmental Action Team. I've also served with the Beach Preservation Society of Oak Island for numerous years, though I'm not —I was their treasurer, and I'm not on that group any longer. But I support and love everything that they do. 01:39:37 I worked for years as an educator. I'm a retired teacher. I was a middle school, and high school, and community college teacher. And I even in years past taught here and had some students, math here [ph]. So primarily though I'm a math teacher, I've written some really exciting project -based curriculum, and I love working with children. And the project -based activities Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 60 involve aquatic ecosystems, an understanding of our one world, one ocean. 01:40:06 And we start to think that there are walls everywhere. There are seven different oceans. There are different continents. There —but really, we're connected. And the ocean that's right outside our door in Caswell Beach, right outside my door, when I walk out —I can walk there in 10 minutes —it's just magnificent. And to share that enthusiasm and excitement with the youth, with the kids, and get them to interact with reality the —of life, and loving life, and loving nature, is very scary when —every time I go to Southport from Oak Island, I drive over that canal. And I look at the canal and I go, "Oh, who would even want to put their toe in that, that nasty -looking canal?" And I lived here in 1999, and I saw the canal then, and it was nasty. And it's nasty now. And I'm just like, I know that we're talking about maybe the specific property itself, but we're connected. 01:41:10 And that canal that flows underneath Caswell Beach and dumps water into our ocean, and our dolphins, and our whales. And I saw a whale, you know, beaching, you know, dying on the — on our beach a couple years ago. And who knows? We just don't know. The knowledge isn't there. But that's what we want our kids to have the enthusiasm and excitement to learn, and to explore, and to study. What's going on with our chemistry, our Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 61 biochemistry, our microbiology, our —the statistics, the analysis, the thinking. What's best? Let's get some love. Let's get some — who said it best, maybe George Harrison, huh? Hare Krishna. Thank you very much. We love you [ph]. [APPLAUSE] May: Are there any other speakers that wish to comment on the two permits? Yes, ma'am? And again, if you would state your name, please. 01:42:10 Ward: Hey. I'm Catherine Ward and I live in Harbor Oaks, which is in Southport. We are right outside of where Capital Power is. And my husband and I really weren't aware of any of the pollutants Capital Power put out until we moved into our neighborhood. And not long after we moved into our neighborhood, we noticed that we had a constant [ph] ash on our front porches, our fans, our back porch. And we recently had plants on our back porch. We have herbs and we can't use any of them because they are constantly covered in black soot. 01:42:47 And we're here tonight because we are concerned parents. I'm actually from the area and I grew up here, but I didn't grow up within a mile of Capital Power, and my little boy does. He's three years old, and we have another one soon to be. So we're raising kids here. And I ask you to look into this permit as if your kids Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 62 were living within a mile of Capital Power. And that's really my only comment. [APPLAUSE] May: Are there any other comments on the stormwater permit and wastewater permit? Yes, sir? 01:43:28 Baldwin: My name is Merle Baldwin. I live in Oak Island. For over 26 years, I cleaned —did remediation and hazardous waste cleanup all over the country. Mainly based here out of North Carolina. When I look at some —some of the things I've learned over the years is, you can't get something clean without getting something else dirty. And it's possible to get everything dirty and nothing clean. [LAUGHTER] 01:44:05 But —and when I look at this, I don't look at it as much of aas a human standpoint. I look at it more regulatory and how to clean it up. So when I look at some of these —and somebody else brought this up, which I had written down here in the slides [ph] that Derek had, on the priority pollutants, where they had a grab sample instead of a composite sample. And again, that was one sample per permit period, which we're saying that the permit could be a five-year period. 01:44:38 So, for doing all the heavy metals, and VOCs [ph], and everything else, I think that's something that really needs to be done, I would say, at least on a semi-annual basis. And especially Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 63 for doing a grab sample, I don't think that that would be something that would —I don't think is very over —you know, a composite. It's not a representative sample. 01:45:04 With all the technologies out there now, they can put auto - samplers in. And also, to make sure that where the sampling points are, not in the canal, not in the ocean, but right there before it goes into that number three discharge. I have cleaned out —you know, I don't what the temperature —their burn temperatures are. I know it's not —probably not incineration temperature, but when you burn creosote and some of the other things like that, pentachlorophenol, you get byproducts of those when you don't burn those at an incineration temp —but just a burning temperature. 01:45:43 So you may have something left over from the creosote. I'm assuming that's in there as well, in the bottom ash. And I don't know if they use dewatering plates, or a dewater—belt dewatering, however they use that for when the ash comes out. But again, as someone else said, all that stuff can go to Pinewood, South Carolina for hazardous waste facility. And the same thing with the liquids. They don't —those things [ph] should not be discharged. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] 01:46:18 May: Is there anybody else that wishes to comment on either the stormwater or wastewater permit? Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 64 [INAUDIBLE] 01:46:28 Parisi: Hi. My name in Donna Parisi [ph]. I live in Turtlewood, resident, right in Southport. My backyard literally is CPI and ADM. So my question to you would be, in the environmental impact, I've dealt with fracking, I've dealt with offshore drilling, as a fighter. So you got me [ph]. My thing is, the brain tumor situation, which people are explaining in the lands —Landings [ph], I found that. I lost a son to cancer with a brain tumor because of chemicals. Primary tumor [ph] . 01:47:03 So it is something that really needs to be followed up on, and needs to be checked directly, because we have a lot of children. We have a lot of adults who have come here to live and enjoy their retirement. And quite honestly, if I didn't see it for myself, on a boat, the water out by Caswell Beach, I wouldn't have believed it. But I saw it. The temperature of the water is quite a bit different than the regular part of the water, when you come up to that part. 01:47:30 And it really needs to be not regulated by CPI, but by people that really care about the environment. And so that's my piece. Bye. [APPLAUSE] May: Are there any other comments on the stormwater and wastewater permit? In the back. Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 65 01:47:53 Ingram: Hi. My name is Jennifer Ingram and I didn't come in here tonight to talk, but as I listen to what all of my neighbors say, I —and I think that we've been very cordial, and very understanding, and tried to make sense of this. 01:48:21 But I come from the nuclear industry. I was employed by Duke Energy for 10 years, and am an auditor by trade. Basically, I've been —dealt with many inspections with Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and conducted many audits. The nuclear industry knows where their improvement opportunities are. They can tell you exactly where everything is in their plant. They know exactly what they have to work on, and they know exactly who they owe action items to. They know who they answer to. 01:49:00 And what I'm —what I want you guys to understand is that in the nuclear industry —and I'm assuming that most of your career opportunities —you're held accountable. You're held to a standard. You acknowledge your ownership. And then people hold you accountable if you fail. 01:49:22 And what I'd like to put on notice here, tonight, is that you guys are on notice that if you fail, you will have to come back here, and you'll have to look everyone here in the face, and explain why, when you had a very good opportunity to fix what's broken. 01:49:40 So, I have not heard any statistics about what the maximum allowable parts in the water are. I don'tI haven't heard anything Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 66 about where CPI measures up to what the maximum amount legally is. We've heard none of that. We've seen pretty pictures. We've heard a lot of statistics thrown out as far as —not statistics, but processes, and how you do stormwater writing. 01:50:10 And that's all great, but it doesn't answer this young lady's question about her herbs that she can't use. And it doesn't answer the issue about water and drinking. You all have bottles of water sitting here. You're not drinking our water. [LAUGHTER] [APPLAUSE] May: Are there any other comments from folks who have not had an opportunity to speak? M: Okay. I'll do it. [LAUGHTER] May: And if you could, remind us of your name. 01:50:58 Tomlin: My name is Tom Tomlin [ph]. I live in Turtlewood. At night when the lights on the smokestacks blink, my wife says, "Is it lightning out there?" We're that far from the plant. And people have been talking like you can specify the limitations of what the plant can emit or allow to leave, whether you have some control over that. 01:51:26 And I know it's really common among businesses to say, "Well, gee, regulation is terrible. We can't afford it. It's going to impact our ability to make a profit." Now, let's not talk about how much we pay the people at the top, and let's not concern ourselves Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 67 with anything other than profits for stockholders. What I want to suggest is that if you get feedback from CPI saying, "Well, that's a good idea in theory, but we can't really afford to do that. It's not practical," I would not accept that as a good argument against following best practices and protecting this area for our spouses, and our kids, and our grandkids, and our neighbors' babies, and people like that. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] 01:52:26 May: Is there anybody else that has not spoken who wishes to provide comment on the stormwater permit or wastewater permit? Well, at this time, seeing no hands, we will move on through the hearing here. 01:52:43 So, if you did not speak tonight, but would like to submit written comments, they will be accepted until 5:00 p.m. on December 23rd, 2019. Written comments should be submitted to the email address or postal address found on the handout available at the registration desk. For reference, and if you didn't have an opportunity to pick up a handout, the email address is publiccomments@NCDENR.gov. Include CPI in the email subject line. 01:53:20 Also, comments submitted by postal mail should be addressed to Derek Denard, NC Division of Water Resources, Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com NCDEQ Brunswick Community College, Bolivia, NC Public Hearing 11-21-19 Page 68 Water Quality Permitting Section, 1617 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1617. 01:53:40 Based on public comments received and information submitted in the application, I will make a recommendation to the director of the Division of Water Resources and the director of the Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources for their consideration in making a final decision on whether to issue or deny this application. 01:54:00 At this time, I would like to thank all of you for your attendance tonight, your feedback, and comments. This hearing at this time is adjourned. Thank you. M: Thank you. [APPLAUSE] [INAUDIBLE] [END RECORDING] Transcript prepared by Rogers Word Service 919-834-0000 www.rogersword.com