20090451 Ver 1_Meeting Minutes_20080106

DRAFT Minutes for Permit Drawing Review Meeting
R-2408B, Macon County
NC 28 from SR 1323 (Riverview Street) to SR 1378
(Bennett Road)
A Permit Drawing Review Meeting was held on Wednesday,
September 24, 2008 in the Hydraulics conference room at the NCDOT
Century Center Complex, Raleigh.
Team Members Present:
Andrew Nottingham - NCDOT Hydraulics Design
David Baker - USACOE
Marella Buncick - USFWS
Marla Chambers - NCWRC
Brian Wrenn - NCDWQ
Kathy Matthews - EPA
Donnie Brew - FHWA
Mark Staley (for David Harris) - NCDOT Roadside Environmental
Jason Moore - NCDOT Roadway Design
John Duggins (for Quang Nguyen) - NCDOT Structure Design
Linwood Stone - PDEA
Carla Dagnino - NCDOT NEU
Team Members Absent:
Jamie Wilson -NCDOT Division 14
Participants:
Jeanie Tyson - NCDOT Roadway Design
Stephen Morgan - NCDOT Hydraulics Design
Randy Griffin - NCDOT NEU
LeiLani Paugh - NCDOT NEU
Byron Moore - NCDOT NEU
Eugene Tarascio - NCDOT Project Development
Amy Simes - DENR
Jennifer Parish - NCDOT Roadside Environmental
Mark Staley - Ncdot Roadside Environmental
Jason Dilday - NCDOT NEU
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R2408B Permit Drawing Review Meeting Minutes
The meeting began at 1:00 p.m. with introductions followed by NCDOT Hydraulics
giving a brief description and history of the project. It was noted that this project was
not following the merger process. The group was reminded of a prior on- site meeting to
discuss the impacts associated with the culvert crossing at station 1 10+00-L-. The
project's Environmental Assessment identified the project as being located within the
critical habitat area for the Appalachian elk toe mussel and spot fin chub. NCDOT will
implement appropriate erosion and sedimentation controls to minimize impacts from
construction and runoff NCDOT described the project as a safety improvement project.
The overall lane configuration remains the same, but the vertical and horizontal
alignments will be improved. The typical section consist of a two-lane section with
roadside ditches. Where needed to eliminate large cut sections, expressway gutter was
used. There are no retaining walls on the project.
NCDOT led the discussion by reviewing the Stormwater Management Plan for the
project. The Roadway Description, Environmental Description and Impacts, and Best
Management Practices were presented. NCDOT noted that the project is in the Little
Tennessee watershed, with a portion of the project near the beginning flowing into Lake
Emory. The remainder of the project flows into tributaries of the Little Tennessee River
below the lake. DWQ expressed concern with the extensive amount of piping on the
project. NCDOT explained that the new roadway typical section will allow storm water
to flow overland in grassed ditches built with 4:1 and 6:1 side slopes before it will enter
the pipe system through grated inlets. This design will allow for more effective overland
flow than the current design because the new grassed shoulders are wider, and the
existing ditches are stabilized extensively with pavement.
NCDOT began a site by site discussion of the permit drawings. At Site IA, the team
members agreed a detail would be needed to show that placement of rip rap at the pipe
inlet would be embedded. DWQ asked for a review of the pipe design along Hughes
Lane. NCDOT described that the amount of water in the pipe system warranted the
design, and the ditch along Hughes will be replaced once the pipe is installed.
At Site 1, USACOE asked about the extent of the impact. NCDOT explained that the
new roadway cross section required a longer pipe than is now present. The rip rap will
be on the stream banks only.
At Site 2, NCDOT explained the benefits to erosion and sedimentation by piping into the
pipe crossing rather than releasing storm water into a steep ditch that would require rip
rap stabilization. The entire pipe system has grass swale treatment before entering the
pipe system at grated inlets.
At Site 3, NCDOT will add the stream name (and at all other stream sites as well).
USACOE asked if the stream impacts could be reduced below 300' using retaining walls
or other means. Several team members expressed concerns with the proposal and agreed
to leave the design as is. The temporary easement encompassing the stream relocation
c i',?i7fWill be changed to Right of Way. NCDOT may revise the stream details slightly to aid
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R2408B Permit Drawing Review Meeting Minutes
in stakeout and construction. Additional Rock Cross Vanes may be added if needed
during this process.
At Site 4, NCDOT noted that the existing 6'x 6' culvert upstream of the proposed
culvert will be removed. USFWS expressed concerns that bottomless culverts may not
always adequately allow for the formation of a natural stream channel inside the culvert
depending on the width and length of the culvert. The team agreed more study and
evaluation of existing bottomless culverts is needed to address this concern in the future.
No comments for Site 5.
Other business:
The team agreed NCDOT NEU should proceed with a proposal to "daylight" an existing
underground pipe on the R2408A section using natural stream design.
The meeting was adjourned at 2:05 p.m.
Page 3 of 3

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