20100362 Ver 1_Meeting Minutes_20081015

Subject: Minutes from Interagency 413 Hydraulic Design Review Meeting
On October 15, 2008 for U-4007B in Onslow County
Team Members:
Brad Shaver-USACOE
David Wainright-NCDWQ
Travis Wilson-NCWRC
Steve Sollod-NCDCM
Steven Lane-NCDCM
Gary Jordan-USFWS
Kathy Matthews-EPA
Chris Militscher-EPA
Donnie Brew-FHWA
Chris Rivenbark-NEU
John Merritt-NEU
David Hams-REU
Bryan Taylor-Roadway,
General Comments:
(present)
(present)
(present)
(present)
(present)
(present)
(present)
(absent)
(present)
(present)
(present)
(absent)
(absent)
Participants:
Marshall Clawson, NCDOT Hydraulics
Frank Fleming, Sungate Design Group
Brian Elam, Sungate Design Group
Kenny Smith, Stantec
Joe Blair, NCDOT Division 3
Mason Hemdan, NCDOT Division 3
Brian Yamamoto, NCDOT PDEA
Omar Azizi, NCDOT Structures
Emily Murray, NCDOT Structures
Amy Simes, DENR
Todd Murray, NCDOT Roadway
Marshall Clawson started the meeting by introducing the project and stating that the purpose of
the meeting was to review the 30% hydraulic designs and show that the commitments made at
the 4A meeting were met After introductions, Mr Clawson then handed the meeting over to
Frank Fleming Mr Fleming proceeded through the project sheet by sheet explaining the
proposed drainage design and fielding questions
Plan Sheets 4•
There are no streams or wetlands impacted on this sheet Mr Fleming noted an existing ditch
will be replaced right of the project in the vicinity of Scales Creek The proposed ditch will tie to
the existing ditch before impacting Scales Creek
Plan Sheets 5:
Mr Fleming noted that there is an existing 2 @ 6' X 7' box culvert under US 17 Bypass that will
be extended on both ends The jurisdictional stream is Sandy Run Branch The two extensions
will use bends to line the box culvert with the channel The extensions cannot be buried the
traditional 10' on either end The inlet extension is proposed to be on a 0 0% grade and will be
at bed level The outlet will be extended on 0 3% grade, the same as the existing grade, and will
be buried +/-0 7' The inlet side cannot be buried because of the existing culvert elevation and
existing channel elevation DWQ requested a note be provided for not burying the extensions in
the permit application
Mr Fleming stated the stormwater will be handled with pre-formed scour holes and grass swales
Plan Sheets 6:
Mr Fleming noted the wetland system that is conveyed from the right of -NBL-Ramp at +/-
48+00 through two crossing on the future construction of Loop-IA- to an extension of an
existing system that runs south parallel to Marine Blvd Mr Jordan of USFWS asked will the
system be a total take NCDOT PDEA and Division requested clarification on why it would be a
total take Mr Blair stated inside the loop would not be cleared EPA and USACOE stated there
may be water quality benefit Mr Jordan stated the system would not support habitat There
was an agreement that two small areas would be a total take These areas are between -L- and
Loop -IA- and the area between the loop and -Y-lA- (Marine Blvd) Many suggestions from
NCDOT were offered for the area inside the loop, from photo monitoring, additional floodplain
pipes, and/or reduced mitigation ratios There was no conclusion at this time It was agreed that
a decision should be made before the field inspection
Ms Matthews questioned the timing of the "future loop" Mr Smith and Mr Blair agreed the
embankment would be constructed but not paved
Mr Fleming stated the stormwater will be handled with pre-formed scour holes and grass swales
Plan Sheet 7:
Mr Fleming stated that the wetland system and jurisdictional stream at +/- station 16+00 -L-
will be conveyed with a 60" RC pipe buried 1 0' Mr Fleming stated the stormwater will be
handled with pre-formed scour holes and grass swales
Mr Wainwright expressed concern about the wetland boundary that appears incomplete along -
Y4- Mr Wainwright made it clear that he cannot "sign off' on -Y4- alignment until he receives
documentation that the alignment minimizes wetland impact as previously agreed upon Mr
Fleming stated a request for clarification of the boundary had been sent to Hydraulics (9/26/08)
NEU stated they had received the request and is looking into the situation
Mr Fleming stated that the wetland system at +/-26+00 -L- will be conveyed with a proposed
36" RC pipe This system is a wetland with no channel Mr Fleming also proposes to use
standard np rap pads at the outlet of this pipe and others that convey flow in a wetland system
with no channel He expressed concern for using scour holes and/or energy dissipaters in
wetlands He expressed that the construction of these outlet protections would disturb the system
more than a standard pad to dissipate the energy Mr Fleming explained that this is not an
equalizer pipe but it's a crosspipe with discernable drainage area Mr Fleming there are
equalizer pipes proposed on the project and they will be flat (0 0% grade) and require no outlet
protection Mr Fleming explained the size of the stone proposed and the length of the proposed
np rap pads (std 876 02 of Roadway Standard Drawings) Mr Wilson stated that the pads are
not a detriment to wildlife passage since the pipe sizes are relatively small Mr Lane expressed
concern over np rap staying in place Mr Fleming stated there is a problem with the type of
stone available in the area being light Mr Blair stated granite is being used in the area and it
was agreed granite would be used for outlet protection
Plan Sheet 8:
Mr Fleming stated that the wetland system at +/-32+00 -L- will be conveyed with 2 proposed
lines of 24" RC pipe Mr Fleming stated that a double line is being used for a reduction of storm
elevation in a wide floodplam and should help wetland hydrology connectivity This system also
does not have a defined channel and they are not equalizer pipes
Mr Fleming stated the stormwater will be handled with pre-formed scour holes and grass swales
Plan Sheet 9•
Mr Fleming stated that the wetland system and jurisdictional stream at +/-40+00 -L- will be
conveyed with a proposed 72" RC pipe buried 10' This crossing is dust downstream of the
water quality pond behind Target and Lowes The pond will be impacted by roadway fill but no
runoff from the proposed -L- alignment will be discharged into these ponds Mr Fleming is
proposing to minimize impact to the pond by utilizing rock-plated 1 5 1 fill slopes in the pond
Mr Fleming stated a reduction in volume of the pond has not been finalized at this time Mr
Wainwright stated NCDOT should "notify the Stormwater Section of DWQ of the proposed
construction, reduction in volume, and their process and proposal to mitigate the impact to the
water quality pond Mr Fleming asked if that was Sungate's responsibility Mr Clawson stated
that the process will occur during the R/W stage and will be considered apart of the property
settlement Sungate will supply NCDOT with the volume reduction of the pond(s) This data
will be used to compensate the pond owner in regards to their existing stormwater permit It will
be the pond's owner responsibility to satisfy their permit with DWQ Mr Wainwright requested
this information to be included in the permit application
Mr Fleming stated the stormwater will be handled with pre-formed scour holes and grass swales
Plan Sheet 10:
Mr Fleming stated that the wetland system and jurisdictional stream at +/-57+00 -L- will be
conveyed with a proposed 42" RC pipe buried 10' Also a stream that mtersects,with the
previous stream south of the proposed alignment was discussed This stream crosses -L- at +/-
60+00 This stream is called jurisdictional beginning at +/- 30' south of the centerline Mr
Fleming stated this stream is proposed to be conveyed with a 36'RC pipe and both pipes will be
buried 20% Mr Sollod stated the pipes need to be buried 10' since the project is in a CAMA
county if the stream is a "blue line" on the USGS Quad Mr Fleming stated he was unaware of
this and will bury the pipes 1', if the streams are "blue-lines"
Mr Fleming stated the stormwater will be handled with pre-formed scour holes and grass swales
Plan Sheet 11:
Mr Fleming stated there are no wetlands or jurisdictional streams impacted on this sheet
Plan Sheet 12:
Mr Fleming stated there is a wetland left of 100+00 Y-2 that may constitute as an impact He
noted there is an existing deep roadside ditch that runs along Marine Blvd This ditch is
proposed to be replaced in-kind at about the same elevation, but will move horizontally +/-40' to
50' Mr Fleming noted that the dimension stated was an estimate and needs to be verified once
drainage is approved by NCDOT Mr Wainwright stated the "Skaggs Method" could be used to
estimate the impact Mr Fleming stated he is familiar with the method but has never implicated
it Mr Fleming expressed concern that past uses of the methods by others seem to over estimate
the impact Mr Fleming also suggested that the proposed ditch will be at the same elevation as
the existing Mr Shaver stated it seemed to be reasonable to estimate the impact by the
horizontal distance the ditch will be moved There was agreement among all
Plan Sheet 13:
Mr Fleming reiterated the wetland delineation problem on -Y4-
Mr Fleming stated the jurisdictional stream that crosses -Y4- at +/- 23+00 is proposed to be
conveyed by 2 lines of 36" RC pipe The pipe in the channel will be?buned 1' if it's a "blue
line", therefore the pipe size may increase
Mr Fleming stated there is a grade revision for Moosehaven Road that is not complete at this
time and that the designers have been notified to reduce impacts to water quality ponds and the
jurisdictional stream This stream previously was not going to be impacted by Moosehaven
Road A discussion commenced upon which impact, to the pond or the stream, should be
minimized the most It was agreed to attempt to not impact the pond behind Ruby Tuesdays
Mr Fleming stated the pond at the SECU will be impacted Again Mr Wainwright requested
the stormwater section of DWQ be notified
Mr Fleming also added that along -Y4- equalizer pipes are proposed The number of pipes and
their location will be determined once a complete wetland file is received
Plan Sheet 14:
Mr Fleming stated there are no wetlands or jurisdictional streams impacted on this sheet The
stormwater from the retail area will be discharged into the same water quality ponds as it does
now
Meeting adjourned