20140957 Ver 2_ACP_July18_FayettevilleHearing_Transcripts_20170811

Burdette, Jennifer a
From: Alex Wagner <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 2:30 PM
To: Burdette, Jennifer a
Subject: ACP July 18 and July 20 public hearing transcripts
Attachments: ACP_July20_PublicHearing_Recorder Lcloc; ACP_Julyl8_PublicHearing_Recorder Lcloc
Good afternoon, Jennifer. Draft transcripts are attached for both July hearings.
Thankyou!
-Alex

NC DENR
ACP July18_PublicHearing_Recorder 1
Anglin:
Rev. Jack Anglin
McGowan:
David McGowan
Barnes:
Joe Barnes, Jr.
Mills:
Susan Mills
Brown:
Rachelle Brown
Miner:
John Miner
Bruce:
Ashley Denise Bruce
Modde:
Douglas Modde
Burdette:
Jennifer Burdette
Nino:
Luis Nino
Button:
Richard Button
Nunnery:
Robert Nunnery
Clark:
Donald Clark
Osterbrink:
Maple Mary Osterbrink
Ehrenreich:
Hanah Ehrenreich
Peril:
Tammy Peril
Ellis:
Christine Ellis
Revels:
Jordan Rells
Endo:
Pauline Endo
Rodgers:
Cary Rogers
Geddes:
Kim Geddes
Rosario:
Deanna Rosario
Goins:
Robie Goins
Ross:
Ron Ross
Green:
Virginia Green
S. Clark:
Sandra Clark
Guy:
David Guy
Saied:
Merriam Saied
H. Goins:
Hannah Goins
Schrader:
Anne Schrader
K. Wood:
Keely Wood
Scull:
Robert Scull
Kennedy:
Adrienne Kennedy
Self.
Deb Self
L. Modde:
Lisa Modde
Stephenson:
Francine Stephenson
Legerton:
Rev. Mack Legerton
Stewart:
Hunter Stewart
Locklear:
Liam Locklear
T. Clark:
Tom Clark
Long:
Jeff Long
Wagner:
John Wagner
Lopez:
Felipe Lopez
Wood:
Nick Wood
Lowry:
Jameson Lowry
Wrenn:
Brian Wrenn
May:
Steven May
M/F:
Male/Female Speaker
00:00:35
Wrenn: Good evening.
[INDISCERNIBLE].
Before we begin, I ask that
everyone turn off or silence all cell phones and pagers as a
courtesy to all the teachers. My name is Brian Wrenn [ph] and I'm
the director of the Division of Water Resources to serve as a
hearing officer for this hearing and the hearing on July 201h [ph].
I'm the supervisor of the ecosystem branch of the division central
office.

NC DENR
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Page 2
00:01:01 At this time I would like to introduce representatives from
the Department of Environmental Quality. Jennifer Burdette [ph]
[INDISCERNIBLE]. Carrie [ph] 401 and buffer
permitting branch [ph] supervisor; public information
officer; Laura Alexander [ph], administrative assistant; Nicki
Maher [ph], compliance assistance specialist; Sherry [ph]
, administrative assistant; Laura Robertson [ph],
environmental specialist. We also have some elected officials in
attendance tonight. Martin Lucas [ph] of the North Carolina
House of Representatives; Senator Ben Clark [ph], and
Representative [ph] Homer Ford [ph].
00:01:50 This hearing is being held under the authority of Title 15A
of North Carolina Administrative Code 02H.0504. In accordance
with 15a North Carolina Administrative Code 02H.0503, a public
notice for this hearing was published in the Fayetteville Observer,
News & Observer, The Rocky Mount Telegram, The Roanoke -
Chowan News -Herald, and The Robesonia and The Wilson Times
on June 17th, 2017 and the Daily Harold and The Sampson
Independent of June 18th, 2017 and posted online and sent by mail
to the water quality certification mailing list on June 16th 2017.
00:02:32 A correction to the public notice to correct a typo in the
height diameter was posted online on June 19th and issued in the
newspapers on June 21" and June 22nd. The purpose of this
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NC DENR
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hearing is to obtain public comment from the application for a 401
water quality certification in riparian buffer authorization from
Atlantic Coast Pipeline LLC for the Atlantic Coast Pipeline
project. This hearing is not a question and answer session with
DEQ staff It is an opportunity for us to obtain community
feedback on the application.
00:03:12 I will be preparing a written record of these proceedings.
For this reason the audio of this hearing is being recorded. Written
comment received by 5:00 p.m. on August 19th, 2017 will also be
included as part of the record. Written comments may be
submitted to the email address or postal address found on the
handout available at the registration desk. Equal weight will be
given to both written and oral comments. I will now ask Jennifer
Burdette from the Division of Water Resources to make a short
presentation.
00:03:51 Burdette: Good evening. I work for the Department of Environmental
Quality for the Division of Water Resources. The division is
reviewing Atlantic Coast Pipeline's application for a Clean Water
Act Section 404 water quality certification in the Neuse and Tar -
Pamlico River Basin, riparian buffer authorization for the proposed
transmission pipeline and supporting infrastructure.
00:04:16 The pipeline is proposed to be located and through North
Hampton, Halifax, Nash, Wilson, Johnston, Sampson,
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NC DENR
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Cumberland, and Robeson counties in North Carolina. The
pipeline is proposed to deliver natural gas from the Appalachian
region to markets in Virginia and North Carolina. It would end in
North Carolina at North Hampton County as a 42 -inch pipeline to
a new compressor station to be located near North Carolina's
border with Virginia. A 36 -inch pipeline is proposed to carry the
gas from the new compressor station generally along Interstate 95
to Robeson County. Three metering regulating stations, 11 valve
sites, and four pig launcher/receivers, which are pipeline spec'ing
[ph] tools, are proposed to support operation to the pipeline.
00:05:06 A lateral pipeline is also proposed to connect the new
pressure station to the Norfolk, Virginia area. It would run north-
northeast for approximately 12 miles in North Carolina before
crossing into Virginia. Along this route the pipeline crosses
approximately 326 surface waters or water bodies and wetlands.
Surface waters include streams, ponds, and the Neuse River.
Seven crossings are proposed to be installed underneath rivers and
large stream channels listed on the slide using horizontal
directional drill method.
00:05:40 This type of installation avoids impacts to the surface
water. In the next slide I'll show you what this looks like and
briefly explain how it works. Once construction is complete, the
ground surface streams and wetlands will be restored as near
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder 1
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practical to their preconstruction condition. A total of
approximately 35,951 linear feet of surface waters and 443 acres of
wetlands will be temporarily impacted by construction. Permitting
pipes [ph] totaling approximately 766 linear feet of surface waters
and 8/10th of an acre of wetlands will result from upgrading farm
roads and building new access roads to the pipeline corridor.
00:06:20 Streamlines [ph] operation within the Neuse and Tar -
Pamlico river basins are protected by the state. These are also
called riparian buffers. Impacts to these areas, adjacent streams,
and other surface waters require a buffer authorization. This is a
cross-section showing you how pipeline installed using the
horizontal directional drill. A drill set up on one side of the water
body creates a horizontal pathway for the pipe underneath the
water body. Then the assembled pipeline is pulled through the
drill pathway to complete the crossing.
00:06:54 This method is proposed for all river crossings except for
the Neuse River and large stream channels or those that support
protected species. Using this method avoids surface disturbance,
riparian tree planning [ph], and in -stream construction. Projects
that require a Clean Water Act Section 404 permit from the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers must also receive a 401 water quality
certification from the state [INDISCERNIBLE]. Certifications are
issued where the division determines that water quality standards
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NC DENR
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are met in protection of existing uses—including protection of
existing uses. Water quality standards are the culmination [ph] of
the various limits on pollutants and criteria in the making of
characteristics that are typical of these resources.
00:07:40 Existing uses consists of aquatic life habitat including
fishing, wildlife, primary recreations such as swimming, secondary
recreation such as wading and boating, agriculture, and water
supply of drinking and food processing [ph]. For a project to be
issued a certification it must meet the following criteria. The
project has no practical alternatives, minimizes adverse impacts to
surface waters and wetlands based on consideration of existing
topography, vegetation, fish and wildlife resources, and
hydrological conditions, the project does not result in the
degradation of ground waters or surface waters, does not result in
cumulative [ph] impacts based upon past or reasonably anticipated
future impacts that cause or will cause a violation of downstream
water quality standards, and, finally, provides a replacement for
existing uses through mitigation.
00:08:40 An alternative analysis was completed as part of the
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission's National Environmental
Policy Act review. This included a no -action alternative,
alternative energy sources, energy conservation, system
alternatives, and two conceptional [ph] alternatives were evaluated,
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder I
Page 7
an eastern route along I-95—that is the proposed route—and a
western route that is located west of Durham [ph]. Also a southern
route for the lateral pipeline was evaluated to select a route around
the Great Dismal Swamp national wildlife refuge and state park.
00:09:19 ACP [ph] also evaluated several major route alternatives.
Initially and based on this developing in the location of receipt and
delivery points, engineering and constructability criteria, terrain,
and existing land use. Then alternatives were evaluated to avoid or
minimize impacts to localized resources and stakeholders which
involve mainly conservation easements, culture resource sites [ph],
forest areas with avoidance and preference for colocation,
protected plants and animals, stakeholder concerns, and surface
waters and wetlands.
00:09:58 ACP has also taken steps to minimize impact of
construction on surface waters and wetlands. At surface -water
crossings they will install temporary bridges to reduce the potential
for sediment impacts. They will use methods to work in the dry by
routing water around the work area where it's feasible. They have
plans for removing fish and other aquatic species from deep -water
work areas. After construction, they will use water from municipal
sources for testing the pipeline integrity [ph] except for the Tar
River and continued [ph] creek crossings. They will restore stream
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder 1
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beds and banks to as near as practical preexisting conditions after
pipeline instillation.
00:10:41 In wetland areas they have limited the width of the
construction right-of-way, which I'll show you on the next slide.
They have located additional temporary workspaces in uplands
[ph] at least 50 feet from wetland boundaries. They will maintain
sediment barriers during construction or restore the ground surface
to preexisting conditions after pipeline instillation, will reseed the
construction corridor with a native seed mix, and will limit [ph]
post -construction maintenance of vegetation within the pipeline
easement.
00:11:12 This is a drawing showing what the typical right of way
within wetlands would look like during construction. And the total
wetland construction right-of-way is reduced from 110 feet
uplands to 75 feet in wetland. Topsoil will be removed first and
kept segregated from the subsoil [ph] below for wetland
restoration. The trench will be centered within the 50 -foot
permitted easement for the pipeline, leaving 50 feet for
construction equipment needed to install the pipeline in the trench
and travel along the construction corridor.
00:11:42 As I mentioned earlier, mitigation is required to provide the
replacement of existing uses. Surface water and wetland impacts
[ph] that will be restored after construction are temporary and do
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NC DENR
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not require mitigation for the 401 water quality certification
because the impact does not result in a loss of the resource. It's
important to note that the Corps of Engineers will require
mitigation for permitted conversion of forest wetlands to wetlands
without laying [ph] plants within the pipeline easement that will be
permanently maintained.
00:12:09 For the 401 certification, mitigation to provide a
replacement of existing uses is required for the permanent impacts
as a result of access road development. Mitigation requires
restoration of streams, wetlands, and buffers somewhere else in the
same watershed as the impact. There are three options available to
mitigate proposed losses of surface waters, wetlands, and
streamside buffers. The applicant can make a payment to a private
mitigation bank credits [ph] from completed
restoration projects, make a payment to the state program who
performs restoration projects. Restoration can also be performed
by or on behalf of the applicant directly. ACP plans to use a tiered
approach in their mitigation plan. They will purchase mitigation
credits from a private mitigation bank where these credits are
available. Where credits are not available, ACP will purchase
credits from the state program. Lastly ACP may propose to
provide mitigation themselves where neither of these options are
available to them.
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder 1
Page 10
00:13:15 Lastly, I'll outline [ph] the 401 water quality certification
process and its timeline. The division Army Corps of Engineers
and state and federal resource agencies have been engaging in pre -
application consultation with ACP since 2014 to avoid and
minimize impacts of surface waters, wetlands, and streamside
buffers. In March of this year the department organized a meeting
with all the divisions that are responsible for processing permits for
the project and conservation groups and other interested
stakeholders to hear any concerns. One concern that we heard
from several stakeholders was that the project's due process of the
individual certification instead of the more abbreviated general
certification process. The department adopted this
recommendation and planned two hearings to facilitate stakeholder
input into the process.
00:14:05 We received the ACP's application for a certification and
authorization on May 8th. On June 16th we issued a public notice
of the project and announced that two hearings will be held, which
was also published in newspapers serving the counties crossed by
the project on the 17th and 18th. We issued a correction of the
public notice a few days later to correct the typographical errors
[ph] in the pipeline reported.
00:14:29 A request for additional information about the project was
issued on June 27th. And the information was received on July
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder 1
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12th. In addition to the hearing tonight, a hearing will also be held
in Rocky Mount this Thursday. The public comment period for
comment will remain open until August 19th. A
decision on the application will be issued by September 18th unless
additional information necessary to process the application is
needed and not yet available. Written comments can be submitted
here tonight, by mail, or by email to the applicable address show.
Thank you.
Wrenn: That concludes the division's presentation. At this time we will
hear from audience members who have signed up to speak. I will
call on those who have signed up to speak first. When they have
finished, if others in the audience would like to comment they will
be given the opportunity to do so, should time allow. To ensure
that we hear from all of the there will be a three-
minute time limit to provide the comments. If you have registered
to speak and wish to give your time to another speaker, you may
do so for a maximum of nine minutes.
00:15:44 Sally [ph] will keep track of the time and raise a sign to
indicate when you have one minute left, 30 seconds left, and when
your time is up. Speakers are encouraged to provide a written
copy of their comments. Cross-examination of speakers will not
be allowed. However, I may ask questions for clarification. We
ask that everyone respect the rights of others to speak without
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NC DENR
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interruption. To ensure that everyone has a clear view of the
proceedings, we ask that you refrain from waving signs inside the
meeting area. If anyone has a sign, we ask that you hold them up
now so that we can take photos to include as part of the hearing
record.
00:17:18 Thank you. If you have not signed in, please do so to
ensure that we have an accurate record of those in attendance
tonight. Some logistical information; bathrooms are located in the
lobby. The women's restrooms are in the lobby to the left of the
signing table. For the men's restroom you will go out the double
doors to the left of the signing area up the ramp to the right. And
then the entrance to the men's restroom is up there. We have exits
either side and in the back.
00:17:50 I will now call on the speakers in the order that they
registered. To ensure that our records are accurate, please clearly
state your name and, if applicable, the organization you are
representing. In addition, we ask that you identify other
associations you may have that have bearing on your input tonight.
For example, if you were appearing on your own behalf but have
obtained information from or provided research to another group
that is interested in this matter please indicate so. Thank you for
your cooperation. Our first speaker tonight, David Guy [ph].
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NC DENR
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00:18:36 Guy: Good evening. My name is David Guy, and this is addressed to
the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality. It has
come to my attention that there are a variety of requirements and
certifications that the Atlantic Coast Pipeline project needs to get
approved before we get into [ph] construction. I want to express
my trust and confidence in Duke Energy and its pipeline partners
for their commitment to save our waterways. I hope that this
agency considers the steps that the energy companies have taken to
safely provide clean and reliable energy to our communities in its
certification process. As I know your agency understands,
oversight [ph] is
by a multitude of organizations,
previous years, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
Throughout the route planning the ACP project has consulted a
variety of other agencies including the Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration, the North Carolina Wildlife Division, and the U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service.
00:19:39 The last two organizations, the NC Wildlife Commission
and U.S. Fish and Wildlife, were instrumental in the ACP's path to
avoid and minimize any rare, threatened, or endangered species.
The two agencies oversaw the route way in conjunction with the
habitat locations. The project has taken the steps to any habitat
that could not be avoided [ph]. I am confident the ACP project is
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder 1
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working for the betterment of our communities. This clean,
reliable energy is just what we need to fuel our growth. However,
I think we all understand that the construction of the pipeline does
require some excavation to put the pipeline safely in the ground
[ph]. It heartens me to know the ACP project partners are
conscious to the potential habitat damage.
00:20:24 They have taken the necessary steps to minimize any
habitat or species damage and went out of their way to ease
pressure on any habitats or species the project could cause [ph].
Their process included the experts of each government field [ph].
When you look at the pipeline proposed route and the evidence
needed, it should be to you that the ACP project has taken critical
preservation steps; it's not simply going straight across the state
[Ph]
00:20:47 Please take into consideration the ACP project commitment
to our state's environment and safety during the certification
process. Our communities and natural resources we save along
with energy future. And my name is David Guy. I'm here on
behalf of juston myself.
00:21:03 Wrenn: Thank you, Mr. Guy. Our next speaker is Robert Nunnery [ph].
00:21:19 Nunnery: My name is Robert Nunnery. I'm a lifelong resident of
Cumberland County, and I've recently lived in Robeson County,
another county affected by this pipeline [INDISCERNIBLE]
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder I
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pipeline. The Atlantic Coast Pipeline comes under scrutiny for
many [ph] reasons based on political, environmental, and safety
concerns. The pipeline project is not reckless, as numerous safety
and environmentally friendly measures would be taken to ensure
that the pipeline would work best for its potential. Not only would
the pipelines workers and the leadership do their jobs in making
this project safe, but it should also be noted that pipelines in
general are significantly safer to transport national gas than any
other means such as highway, rail, and water.
00:22:07 For the Atlantic Coast Pipeline itself, the environmental
safety would also be carefully attended to. The ACP would
provide an environmental [ph] inspector on the projects at all time
during the construction with the authority to stop work. In
addition, FDRC while inspector is on site during construction. In
addition, hose construction inspections will continue until the right
of way is stabilized.
00:22:33 The overall design, construction, and operation of the
pipeline exceeds federal compliance and regulations of natural
resources, historic sites, and ecosystems. Attacking the pipeline
for environmental and safety reasons seems ignorant at best and
the public should know what has actually been outlined for the
pipeline. The demand for natural gas in our state is something that
makes the pipeline necessary and, if done right, environmentally
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NC DENR
ACP _July18_PublicHearing_Recorder I
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with the correct safety standards it simple becomes a no-brainer.
Thank you.
00:23:05 Wrenn: Thank you, Mr. Nunnery. Our next speaker is Francine
Stephenson [ph].
00:23:18 Stephenson: Hello, I'm Francine Stephenson with No Pipeline Johnston
County. I'm a landowner in Johnston County. And our
organization is under the umbrella of the Blue Ridge
Environmental Defense League. The land that I'm supposed to
sacrifice to the proposed Atlantic Coast Pipeline has no wetlands
or streams, just an irrigation pond near the proposed route.
However, there is an artesian water source near or in it in the areas
to be crossed and it's located very near the surface [ph].
00:23:50 It concerns me that this underground stream could be
disturbed by the pipeline. Even greater is my concern for the
general destruction of our air, earth, and water in Eastern North
Carolina, as the construction process cuts through the streams and
rivers that provide our drinking water and as the inevitable gas
leaks pollute all these resources.
00:24:14 Most of the major rivers in Eastern North Carolina are to be
traversed. This is a major environmental impact. We do not often
experience disruptions to so many rivers at once. That
environmental insult would introduce the short-term potential for
pollution and destruction of plants and wildlife as well as harm to
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NC DENR
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humans. The long-term consequences are potential pollution by
escaped methane and other toxins into the water, soil, and air.
00:24:46 All natural gas pipelines leak, and there is a lack of
agreement and enforcement of the maximum amount of leakage
permitted. Even a minimal percentage of leakage at the volume to
be piped through daily will devastate the environment of Johnston
County and the eastern part of North Carolina, not to mention the
significant contribution to global warming.
00:25:10 I did not see hurricanes and floods addressed in the draft
environmental impact statement for the ACP. What an oversight,
since Johnston County has had two hundred -year floods in the last
few years [ph]. As the result of Hurricane Matthew, roads washed
out and tile [ph] was removed and destroyed by raging waters in
many places in the county including areas through which the
pipeline is planned. If floodwaters can wash out asphalt, concrete,
and destroy and reduce the what will happen to steel
pipes carrying methane gas under tremendously high pressure?
00:25:49 I hope the Division of Water Quality will raise the right
questions about flooding issues relative to the pipeline. It's a
tragedy that thinner, lower -quality pipelines can be used in the
rural areas like ours, areas that have been called sacrifice [ph]
zones. I am trusting that the North Carolina Division of Water
Resources will hold the ACP responsible for every single incurred
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NC DENR
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disturbance of our community and its existing ecosystems and
water quality. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
00:26:31 Wrenn: The next speaker is Richard Button [ph].
00:26:42 Button: Thank you. Good evening. My name is Richard Button, and I am
speaking in favor of the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. We use much
energy and we need an abundance of low cost energy to fuel a
robust economy. If we don't use what is nearby, it will come from
somewhere else. I used to work for a company that designed and
produced a product that was used overseas in the Mid East to
compress natural gas and send it to the United States. We were
buying the extra needed gas from a foreign nation.
00:27:28 Now the U.S. is producing natural gas in quantity that we
are able to sell in and outside of our country. We need to move
that product to points of use, like in Cumberland County, safely
and cost effectively. The pipeline will accomplish that, and I am in
support of using that means of transporting as opposed to other
means such as rail or truck, which have a higher rate of safety
issues.
00:28:04 I grew up in Iowa, and when I was nine or 10 years oldI
don't remember the exact—when a natural gas pipeline was put
through my uncle's farmland. And almost 60 years later there has
been no issues related to any of the supposed catastrophic fears
that many people are concerned about. And unless—and I'm sure
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NC DENR
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that most you in the DEQ understand our country is traversed with
thousands and hundreds of thousands of miles of pipeline with
minimal safety issues. So I stand in support of the Atlantic Coast
Pipeline.
00:28:56 Wrenn: Thank you, Mr. Button. [APPLAUSE] Our next speaker is Susan
Mills [ph].
00:29:17 Mills: Good evening. My name is Susan Mills, and I am here to express
my support this project. As a resident of Cumberland County and
a teacher, I support the pipeline because it provides safe energy,
promotes energy independent, and will provide badly needed jobs
for my country—my county and region. The Atlantic Coast
Pipeline is a crucial infrastructure project for North Carolina. We
need the ACP because North Carolina's public utilities need
additional supplies of natural gas to meet the growing energy needs
of consumers. Not to mention, the ACP is also a safer means of
transporting natural gas compared to highway, rail, and water.
00:30:03 This project has had nearly three years of review and input
by numerous federal, state, and local bodies. Burke [ph] and other
agencies have carefully analyzed the project for potential
environmental impacts. The ACP partners have submitted tens of
thousands of pages in the forms of studies and documents. They
have been transparent every step of the way. Numerous forums
have been held on this issue over the past three years. Everyone
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NC DENR
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has had an opportunity to participate in being heard, and as a
teacher it comforts me to know that my students may have an
opportunity for work as the result of the pipeline.
00:30:46 Finally, I want to speak as a wife and a mother. Nothing,
absolutely nothing, is more important to me than my family.
Under no conditions would I support something that I felt was
remotely unsafe or harmful to my family. I've heard from all sides
the past three years during multiple public forums. I have come to
the conclusion that this project is safe. I trust the experts and I
trust the process. It is now time to move forward. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
00:31:28 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Pauline Endo [ph].
00:31:40 Endo: Mr. Wrenn, I am here testifying on my own behalf, but I am a very
active volunteer in the Cape Fear group of the Sierra Club. My
name is Pauline Endo. I live in Wilmington, and like many of the
residents of New Hannover County I am hardwired to investigate
threats to the Cape Fear River and, by extension, potential threats
to the hydrology of the entire coastal plane.
00:32:06 North Carolina is drowning in degraded waters, pollution
from hog farms, chicken processing plants, flooding from rain
events like Hurricane Matthew, sedimentation caused by clear -
cutting forests for wood products, and now the discovery of the
chemical GenX of the water supplies of New Hanover and
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NC DENR
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Brunswick County. What is next? I trust that the department of
water resources will act on the following points to prevent a few of
the many problems that the Atlantic Coast Pipeline presents for
water resources in the coastal plain.
00:32:41 Number one, the Department of Environmental Quality has
not received a complete sedimentation and erosion plan.
Downstream water quality can't be evaluated without a plan to
diffuse flow over disturbed buffer areas. Number two, primary
nursery areas for fish and crustacean species in the Cape Fear,
Roanoke, and Neuse Rivers will be affected by the pipeline. More
details of impacts on the endangered freshwater mussels should be
required. Three, the recent [ph] from Hurricane
Matthew was previously mentioned makes it imperative that
structures necessary for operation of the pipeline be built outside
the I00 -year floodplain, not on the floodplain as now planned.
Four, how do you [ph] follow the pollution of the private wells
close to ash ponds at the Duke power Sutton [ph] power plant near
Wilmington and necessary households to waterlines
in Wilmington, the utmost concern should be given to wells within
a half mile of the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. The proposed 150 -foot
buffer between work sites and wells is not acceptable.
00:33:58 In closing, I ask the Division of Water Resources not to
grant a permit for the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. The coastal plain of
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North Carolina abundantly endowed with a forest and the rainfall
for agriculture, fresh and saltwater estuaries teeming with fish, and
the scenic beauty of beaches is now the besieged by interest that
willfully disregard the most lavish 21" century resources here on
the coastal plain which is solar and wind energy, sources that have
began to make a positive impact on the economy of the coastal
plain and are our best hope to combat climate change.
00:34:41 The Atlantic Coast Pipeline is one more obstacle to local,
community -centered, renewable energy, which is the only safe
energy policy for the 21" century. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
M: [INDISCERNIBLE]. Our next speaker is Donald Clark [ph].
00:35:13 Clark: Well, first of all I'd like to say I prepared a statement. In the last
30 minutes [INDISCERNIBLE] and Duke and Dominion from the
very beginning, the very first day they came they said it was
coming across my northeast corner of the property. They go to the
northwest corner. The surveyors come out; you don't even know
who they are; you don't even know what they're doing there; you
hadn't been told why they're there. When you approach them,
they have no nametag on. I know we're supposed to think about
water, but it's more than water. You've got to be truthful with the
people if you want to get something from them [ph]. If you earn
their trust, they will give it to you. You don't have to take it from
them, through eminent domain.
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00:35:59 They've been very untrustworthy with a lot of our
landowners. Just like this article in the paper Saturday. This is the
reason I changed my speaking tonight. I just can't understand how
you can your project says it's 766 linear feet [ph]. That's
strange; 0.8 acres, less than an acre of wetlands. That second
paragraph [ph], this says it will temporarily impact 36,000
temporarily impact 454 acres. There's a big
difference in 766 and 36,000. Just go ahead and be truthful with
us. Let us know the truth. Tell us the truth from the beginning.
00:36:54 And I will just ask you to not just permit it until they get
their acts together. They don't even act like they know what
they're doing really [ph]. There's another article in the paper
[INDISCERNIBLE] didn't even bring it with me [ph]. But Duke
is preaching solar [ph], they're preaching wind, but yet they're
wanting to put this pipeline in the ground. You can talk to gas
executives and they will tell you that one reason they're putting
this pipe in the ground is that 14% return they're going to get on
the pipe.
M: Preach [ph].
00:37:24 M: If they're putting it in the ground to make their money and as far as
people being able to hook up to it, local people can't hook up to it.
And as far as jobs, Duke and Dominion's own study stated it
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would only create 18 permanent jobs in North Carolina. So what
is the truth?
M: Preach.
M: Just tell us the truth. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] [CHEERS]
00:38:01 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Sandra Clark [ph].
S. Clark: Good evening. My name is Sandra Clark. I live in
North Carolina, and I am a retired teacher of 30 years. And I lived
to tell about it. [LAUGHTER] I am here because I am very
concerned about the safety of our drinking water and the
recreational water. I can speak of a canoeing trip that I enjoyed on
the Cape Fear River many years ago. It was a thrilling and fun -
filled memory that began on the Cape Fear River and it ended in
Erwin.
00:38:41 I want my grandchildren to have the opportunity to enjoy
clean water. Water is so vital to all important life experiences.
The problem that concerns me about the proposed Atlantic Coast
Pipeline is the toxins and harmful chemicals can and will leak into
the water. And they will leak into the water supplies. This
automatically poses a threat to our families, neighbors, and friends
who live in our community that surround the Cape Fear River.
00:39:17 When Hurricane Matthew hit our area, we saw the
destruction and how water supplies were threatened. People were
desperate for clean water. And you know what? We are still
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desperate for clean water. [APPLAUSE] The urgency of this
problem that Duke and Dominion haven't even cleaned up the coal
ash problem. [APPLAUSE]
M: They ain't going to.
00:39:38 S. Clark: So they are brazen in their approach to make the public think that
the toxins in the pipeline, that they won't leak in the water. I can't
ignoreI was reading an article. I can't ignore the facts. And I
appreciate the article written by Jeff Thompson [ph] in The Up and
Coming Weekly, the News Digest [ph]. He shared that the DEQ
ran a test for the Chemours [ph] facility in Fayetteville and they
found GenX in the wastewater in which the company is now
putting into temporary storage tanks.
00:40:12 The unregulated chemical has been discharged into the
Cape Fear River for past years. For years, GenX did not have to
meet any requirements to keep it out of the supply of drinking
water. Imagine that. Thank you DEQ for acting on the citizens'
behalf that has been neglected so long. I really appreciate that,
because if you don't look out for us there's no one that's going to
look out for us. So I appreciate that fact.
00:40:42 We must keep our water supply clean. The solution, we
must clean up our waterways that have been polluted and restore
the health of our community with water that is safe enough to drink
and swim in. I appeal to you, do not give the proposed Atlantic
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Coast Pipeline the chance to add more toxins into an already
polluted Cape Fear River system. We want to help the future
children to be safe and enjoy the Cape Fear River system streams
to enjoy for life.
00:41:19 Thank you to those who have come out for the support.
We the people of North Carolina are the protectors of the water for
the future generations. They deserve to have the clean water to
drink and enjoy the recreational waterways. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Robert Scull [ph].
Scull: My name
00:41:55 [TECHNICAL COMMENTS]
00:42:09 Scull: My name is Robert Scull. I live in Cary, North Carolina. Thank
you for the opportunity to speak in support of water quality here in
our state. I'm a retired history teacher at Craven Community
College. Currently I serve as co-chair of the North Carolina Sierra
Club outings committee. And I also lead cleanups along the
shoreline of Lake Jordan. I've led over 30 outings for the Sierra
Club over the past few years, many of which have been on the
rivers and creeks in Eastern North Carolina.
00:42:43 A few years ago my wife and I kayaked the 180 miles
down the Neuse from Raleigh to New Bern and we saw the impact
of some of the mistakes that have been made in North Carolina in
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the past. Despite irresponsible, unpunished environmental abuses,
North Carolina is still blessed with many beautiful rivers and
streams. Now, I would like to see less pollution of our rivers and
streams rather than more. I also care about the quality of our
drinking water. The cost of healthcare insurance for all of us goes
up each time another person falls victim to air or water pollution
due to the negligence on the part of privileged corporate citizens.
00:43:25 I would not mind an increase in my utility bill if it were
used to clean up the coal ash leaks that have already contaminated
drinking water. What I really dislike is having to pay more money
to do more damage so that absentee stockholders and aggressive
construction firms can profit from a bad idea. It also bothers me
that the stockholders are guaranteed a profit whether or not Duke
makes a good business decision.
00:43:54 There was a time in which the Sierra Club actually saw
natural gas as a less harmful alternative to coal. But we now know
that the long-term impact of natural gas may be just as bad as coal
because of the impact on climate and the threat of sea -level rise,
which of course is not good for real estate values and it's not good
for homeowner insurance policies either. This pipeline is not
needed. Demand for energy in North Carolina has been essentially
flat for years due to increased energy efficiency and also because
we have renewable energies coming into the state, especially solar.
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00:44:38 North Carolina is second only to California in solar energy
production today, and it has a greater potential for offshore wind
energy than any other state on the East Coast. I would not mind an
increase in my utility bill to construct new infrastructure to support
solar or wind, but absolutely oppose more infrastructure to support
a harmful industry. The purpose in studying the past is to avoid
making the same kind of mistakes over and over again. Thank you
for the opportunity to be heard, and thanks to all the people who
have turned out tonight, and thanks for the Division of Water
Quality being here to let us make our statements. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Anne Schrader [ph].
00:45:42 Schrader: My name is Anne Schrader, and I'm a business owner and resident
of Fayetteville. I'm thankful for this opportunity to speak against
Duke Energy's proposed Atlantic pipeline and especially grateful
to be surrounded by concerned citizens who oppose it as well.
Despite this, the majority of citizens of our beloved state are either
not aware of this proposed pipeline or have not been given their
right to full disclosure by being fully informed about the
detrimental impact it will have on citizen and environmental health
and wellbeing.
00:46:12 I have three points for this particular forum this evening.
First, at a time when we are collectively faced with the real facts of
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global warming and man-made environmental degradation caused
in many ways by an aggressive and money -driven, fossil -fuel
industry, our beloved state of North Carolina does not need one of
our nation's most expensive and longest pipelines to travers and
clear-cut its way through air purifying Blue Ridge forests,
decimate our wildlife and their precious habitat, dynamite and
suffocate our wetlands and streams, irrevocably poison our rivers
and drinking water, and seismic blast, drill, and destroy our
previous Atlantic Ocean already filled with plastic, garbage, and
acidification caused by man-made global warming.
00:47:04 Second, Duke has not demonstrated that its unnecessary
toxic pipeline will not harm, pollute, and further destroy the water
quality of these streams, rivers, and wetlands in our beloved state.
Duke has not because it cannot, as the very nature of these
pipelines leak toxic methane into the atmosphere, explode and
damage lives and property, and leak toxic chemicals into the
waterways. However, Duke can and has already demonstrated that
they harm waterways used for public use and survival by dumping
coal ash known to cause cancer into our beloved state's historical
Cape Fear River. And a legal indication of a person's or entity's
future behavior is based on their past behavior.
00:47:58 Third, North Carolina does not need more toxic fuel
pipelines to lock our state into global -warming infrastructure for
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the next 30 years, if our planet survives that long. When we are
already leaders in the nation alongside California in renewable
energy, boasting over 200 renewable businesses and growing. The
solution, we are already proud leaders in renewable energy now.
We are already blessed with free and abundant solar, wind, and
tidal energy now. We must move swiftly to renewable, healthy,
sustainable resources now. We have the means. We have the
facts. We have the resources, and we have the jobs. Why wait
until we polluted our air, water, and soil all used for human
survival? If not now when? And if not you, the policy makers,
who? Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
00:49:06 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Virginia Green [ph].
00:49:16 Green: My name is Virginia Green. I'm from Cumberland County Caring
Voices, and I'm speaking for myself. I have two property tracts
that the pipeline is going through. The biggest section of the
property is wetlands. We have a Carolina bay, water bay. They're
going straight through that. We have animals; we have birds that
migrate in there. We have people that surround this area with
homes with water wells, and these water wells are within just a few
hundred feet of this pipeline.
00:49:51 I use my land for the Wounded Warriors and their children
[ph] to hunt on. So what's going to happen to all the animals when
they go down there with the pipelines and run them off? And they
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also have a property that adjoins my land that they have a picnic
area. They have a pond, and they have climbing walls. They have
berms [ph] for the kids to practice target practice. They have a lot
of things, picnic areas, where they have cookouts. And they use it.
They have put tree stands on my land. They provide guns and
stuff, people with no hands, they provide them with that to where
they are able to shoot. They can teach their children to shoot on
the property. So what are they going to do? Run our veterans off
of that too? And run the animals off with contaminated water?
What about the people? There's houses within a few hundred feet
of this wetland property they're going trough, 1,700 feet of it.
00:50:48 So I would appreciate that you turn these people down and
keep the property safe for our people to drink water. And the Cape
Fear River and everyone else needs renewable energy, and the
pipelines will not serve us, the public people. It will be sold to
somebody else. Thank you for your time. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: The next speaker is Reverend Jack Anglin [ph].
00:51:28 Anglin: Greetings. I'm delighted to be here to have a chance to voice my
opinion against this crazy thing that's proposed. I've lived in
Eastern North Carolina and served churches in Lenoir County and
Johnston County. I've known farmers, businesspeople from the
coast to the mountains. I know the love the people have for this
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land, and I've enjoyed it myself I've floated the rivers, the
streams, love the beach, any water opportunities are great with me.
00:52:04 The idea for taking such a chance to risk ruining such
things in any way, for this, when we live in an age when things are
changing dramatically, it's like putting up a telegraph cable
somewhere. You know? It doesn't make sense. We have
possibilities that are changing it. We don't know what will happen
in the next 10 years with people developing new technologies and
new things all the time. I grew up in Pittsburgh, came down to
North Carolina in '86. When I was a young man I worked in a
steel mill. The steel mill was in Pittsburgh right near the city on
the river. It was a massive facility. I learned a lot of things there.
00:52:53 I got to see organized labor in action there and how it's
now killed the mill, how jobs was something we talked severely
about, and yet there are no jobs in the mill anymore. That mill was
gone, completely gone, and the only reason it's gone is because it's
so close to the downtown area. But it was miles and miles of mill,
cook production, strip facilities, blast furnaces, electric furnaces.
It's all gone because it is valuable property. But if it wasn't
valuable property it would sit there and be rusting because nobody
in business cares about things when they've used them up; the let
them die; they let them rot; they let them go.
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00:53:40 I was just on Saint Croix [ph]. There's a beautiful island
with a refinery. For God's sakes, how does a refinery end up on
the island of Saint Croix? And that refinery is now shut down
except for pumping gasoline in which some day is going to ruin the
coral. It's leaching all kinds of poison into the earth, into the
water. They're not going to do anything about it. They can't do
anything about it.
00:54:07 I look down the road to the future if this thing were to be
built. Hopefully it won't, but way down the road. What happens
when it's rotting and polluting and continuing its poisoning of the
earth? What happens when people have walked away from it,
when technology is developed in such a way that we don't need
gas like this anymore, which is really today? What happens when
we just turn our backs and walk away on it? We can't do that.
Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
00:54:51 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Ron Ross [ph].
00:54:57 Ross: Hi, I'm Ron Ross. I live in Cumberland County all of my life, and
I've had the pleasure of working in Robeson County for the last 21
years. I'm for the pipeline. I wasn't going to be here tonight, but I
read the paper and it got me thinking when I read the paper—you
know, I think it was today, "Seizing our land, raising our utility
bills, polluting our air and water." I got to thinking about when I
was a kid and they were putting 95 through North Carolina. And I
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heard people talking about how it was going to—they were going
to seize our land, pollute our air, pollute our water. My father
actually knew a farmer who it went through his land at a time.
And he was complaining up until they build the 95. And then he
started taking his stuff to market.
00:55:44 I don't think we can do anything without putting our
without involving the environment because if you build a house on
an acre of land, you've touched the environment. Is the pipeline
perfect? Can't be perfect. Nothing is perfect. When they put 95
down through North Carolina down to the coast, when they—I'll
guarantee you there's not a person in this room who hadn't been
down 95. And I remember as a kid we drove from Fayetteville to
Greenville, and it only took us a couple of hours to get there. And
it was a two-lane highway. Now when they put down 95 they did
have to take land. And it did have an impact on our environment.
And if you want to be honest with you, it still has an impact on our
environment every day because cars are driving, they're leaking
oil, stuff like that.
00:56:36 So I've heard all these speakers tonight. And I understand.
The good thing about America is you get to express your opinion.
That's the great thing about America. And a lot of times rather
than saying you can't do it, you look at it and say, "Well, how can
we improve on it, or how can we do it?" Yes, it's going to have
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some impact on our environment. But the thing of it is thoughI
was thinking also when they were talking and I did a little research
because I'm representing myself. You know, in Germany right
now their energy cost is three times higher than ours. And, by the
way, I'm for all types of energy. If you name it, I'm for it. I think
we should try to use all the energy we can.
00:57:21 So that's the good thing about America, we all get to speak
and express our opinion. And 30 years from now when they do do
the pipeline, we'll be talking about how they can improve on it.
thank you. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: The next speaker is Nick Wood [ph].
00:57:55 Wood: Thank you. My name is Nick Wood. I am tonight speaking for
myself, though I am a staff person with Appalachian Voices. I
want to thank you all for being here at the state DEQ. I've heard
tonight about people speaking out and the opportunity to say their
piece, and I think a lot of people would say here this is the first
public hearing that we have had where people can express their
opinions to government agencies in public for the world to see.
00:58:21 FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, who
folks have heard about that has been in charge of the process on
the federal level, calls people into a room and lets them testify
individually. And so I just want to express that, because there's a
lot of opinions and facts. I've heard a few opinions from those I
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don't think agree with me as well as facts need to be considered.
So I just want to address a few things.
00:58:43 And number one is the need for this pipeline. I've heard
again and again that we have a need for energy, that we must
maintain energy independence. And I think about this great God-
given ball of fire up there that we've figured out a way to harness
and this great, amazing wind that we have figured out a way to
harness. And, to me, that's more independent than gas coming 600
miles from West Virginia in a pipeline. We have also heard a lot
about how this is to lower our energy rates. And, again, as folks
have said, past practice is the best indicator of future performance.
00:59:18 Duke Energy has a business practice of building plants and
building infrastructure and buying toxic fuel and then raising our
rates, the worst of which go on residential customers, otherwise
known as people and small businesses. And so because of a lot of
reasons they've got to move on from coal, and I've hard coal ash
mentioned. And I'll say this affects me. Ever since the spill
happened and I learned about coal ash, I've been working all over
this state and met hundreds of people water poisoned, lost love
ones, and a company that tried to hide it. And so down here a lot
we've been hearing from Dominion, but we're not hearing as much
for Duke Energy, and that's who this is.
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00:59:55 They're coming in for a rate hike, coming forward around
coal ash. And they would get a rate return because the more they
can spend the more they can charge us. So they have to move on
from coal. For a lot of reasons I won't get into they have to move
on from nuclear. So they want to double down with gas and lock
us into fossil fuels for another generation. Because once, if they're
able to build it, they do they're going to charge us for it, and
they're going to keep it. In the meantime it's going to damage our
water, it's going to damage our wetlands. All these toxins that
were naturally filtered out are now going to filter in. And we just
don't have time as a state to deal with this.
01:00:30 We are in a state of emergency. You've heard the people
that said this is safer overall. But what if you lived right next-door
to it? What if you did? So we don't need this. It's not going to
save us any money. It hasn't been said, but it's not going to be
creating any jobs. And, again, I just want to thank you all for
being here, for doing this investigation because you really are our
line of defense for the state of North Carolina, and we appreciate
you being here and looking into these things. So thank you very
much. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: The next speaker is Reverend Mack Legerton [ph].
01:01:14 Legerton: Good evening. I'm Reverend Mack Legerton, and I'm proud and
thankful to be a part of many organizations, in fact, all
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organizations that promote and respect and honor our people and
the places that we live and love. The proposed Atlantic pipeline is
applying to travel through the poorest, most environmentally
sensitive, and racial diverse region of our state. I'd like to say that
again. The poorest, most environmentally sensitive, and racially
diverse region of our state.
01 :01:48 If I were a corporate leader in a utility company and I had a
major proposal like this, the last place I would take it would be the
most environmentally sensitive place in a state or a nation. This
community, this region is like a sponge. And to take a pipeline all
the way down through Eastern North Carolina with highly toxic
alien substance, chemical and place it in the middle of a sponge is
not only irresponsible, it's suicidal.
01 :02:24 So in terms of both the environmental protection of our
water, which is your responsibility, our land, our farms, our home,
and our air, and the public health and safety, this proposed
methane gas—there's nothing natural about it—its 90% methane
gas pipeline fails to meet local, state, and federal standards. In our
counties, three of four standards for a permit, if fails three of those
four. It will harm the public health and safety. It will lower our
taxes, and it does not fit into the cultural framework of our
communities. Not just the toxicity but the structures, the towers, it
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all does not fit. It is not a part of our rural community. So why
should we bear it?
01:03:17 If these companies really wanted to protect water quality in
North Carolina they would not and could not have chosen Eastern
North Carolina as a site for it.
F: Mm-hmm.
01:03:27 Legerton: In terms of cumulative impact of the proposed on water quality, the
impact is not only the pipeline but all of the projected pipelines
that will carry new, highly -dangerous, and harmful methane gas all
across Eastern North Carolina all the way to the coast. It will also
be a major impact when you include all the projected gas -powered
plants that Duke and Dominion plan to build along this pipeline
route. All of this impact must be included when you assess the
impact on water quality. And when all these proposed
developments are considered, it is my hope that the North Carolina
Department of Environmental Quality will deny the permit to
operate based on the undue harm and risk to our cherished water
quality in Eastern North Carolina. It is irresponsible for a county,
a state, or a nation to force consumers to bear the burden of a
major rate hike and to put their communities at risk and their
drinking water at risk for a product that is not even needed to meet
our present and future energy needs. We all know renewables are
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ready and can provide the needed and safe energy for our
communities and our people. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Rachelle Brown [ph].
01:05:13 Brown: Good evening. My name is Rachelle Brown, and I'm speaking on
behalf of myself. I was born on Fort Bragg but, being a military
child, grew up elsewhere. I spent many years as a child and young
adult living in the Chesapeake Bay watershed where I've been
involved in the efforts of several communities to protect
themselves from the harms that have resulted from the misconduct
of Dominion Energy, its representatives, and its contractors. I
would like to draw on my experience in observing Dominion
Energy, the largest shareholder in the Atlantic Coast Pipeline
consortium, to make the case that it cannot and should not be
trusted to be a good steward of North Carolina's precious water
resources.
01:05:50 As part of the Allegheny Storage Project, Dominion forced
a 16,000 -horsepower compressor station on the town of Myersville
[ph], suing the town, population 1,626, when the mayor and town
council refused to amend the local comprehensive plan to
accommodate the station. Information obtained through an open
records request submitted to the town by Myersville Citizens for a
Rural Community, which was folded into
against
fracking recently, revealed problems during construction that
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included utilization of improper alternative site access, which may
have resulted in disruption to soft soils and subsequent damage,
indication of stream or wetland crossings without permits,
potential violations of permits with regards to rights-of-way and
limits of disturbance, an indication of improper and lack of
protective fencing.
01:06:37 Despite repeated assurances by Dominion that they had no
plans to upgrade the facility, just weeks after the station was placed
into service on November 1st, 2014 Dominion announced the Leidy
South Project, for which it proposes doubling the Myersville
compressor station capacity. Moving east to the Chesapeake Bay
to Dominion's Cope Point liquefied natural gas terminal currently
under construction, the pattern continues. In its original
application for stream -crossing permits related to the project,
Dominion told the Maryland Department of the Environment that
it would return an offsite area used during construction to a natural
state. A few months ago Dominion applied for a modification to
the permit to leave the area permanently paved with metal
buildings upon it.
01:07:19 The project will permanently impact 7,333 square feet of
forested, non -tidal wetlands; 9,413 square feet of the 25 -foot non -
tidal wetlands buffer; and 102 linear feet of stream. This is only a
small selection of what communities and regulators have
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encountered in dealing with Dominion. They may seem small in
and of themselves, but they add up to create not only a cumulative
environmental impact but a warning to anyone who may find
themselves confronted with a dominion project. I urge the North
Carolina Department of Environmental Quality to approach the
permit application for the Atlantic Coast Pipeline with this in mind
and that I hope your ultimate decision will be to reject it. Thank
you for the opportunity to comment. [APPLAUSE]
01:08:10 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Deanna Roseria [ph].
01:08:19 Rosario: Good evening. My name is Deanna Rosario. I live in the tiny strip
of county left between Hope Mills and Fayetteville, so this does
not actually affect me personally. However, I am an
environmental -management degree holder from the University of
Maryland and, of course, that means that everything having to do
with the environment and its management affects me personally.
I'm also a former employee of Sustainable Sandhills [ph] and still
get called a lot from them.
01:08:47 While many speakers tonight will address the
environmental impact of the Atlantic Coast Pipeline, I would like
to talk a bit about the economic impacts that may occur to
downstream communities if the current construction method is
approved. First, by blasting and digging up the wetlands and
streams along the route, the way flooding is managed by the
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watershed will change [ph]. Sorry, I'm very nervous. Increased
erosion and sedimentation, both during and after construction, will
allow floodwaters from our tropical storms and regular
thunderstorms to move downstream faster, thus creating more
damage and more cost to the communities' agriculture and
industry between the pipeline and the coast.
01:09:25 Second, increased sedimentation and the pollution that goes
with it from these upstream activities will increase the cost of
treating that water to make it safe to drink for everyone
downstream. The Cape Fear is a prime example of this. By the
time it gets to Wilmington it takes a lot more to make it drinkable
than Fayetteville has to deal with. We have cleaner.
01:09:46 Third, the changes in water flow and sedimentation as well
as the watershed as a whole will negatively impact the sports
industry. As increased sediments cover plants, streambeds, and
other habitats in the sounds and estuaries, the prey -fish that form
the foundation of the sports [ph] fishing industry will disappear or
could disappear. Without prey, the swordfish will leave to find
better hunting grounds. That will seriously impact the coastal
economies that depend on tourists seeking these experiences.
01:10:22 What is the solution? Of course the favored solution for
many is not to build the ACP at all. That's probably not going to
happen. Failing [ph] that outcome I would like to see the pipeline
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elevated or otherwise removed from impacting the wetlands as
severely as digging would. A prime example of this is the Alaska
Pipeline. It's elevated above the tundra to keep that sensitive
ecosystem from being destroyed. This also creates a less invasive
footprint and allows for repairs and maintenance that does not
involve digging into the watersheds even more. This also means
that at the end of the pipeline's usable life it can be removed more
easily without further damage to the watershed and the aquifers
that so many depend on.
01:11:08 I will leave you all with one very important question. If
downstream economies are damaged by this pipeline, who will be
on the hook for compensation and repair? Will it be the taxpayers
or will it be the pipeline owners? [APPLAUSE]
M: [INDISCERNIBLE]
01:11:30 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Jordan Rells [ph].
Revels: My name is Jordan Rells and I am a 19 -year-old college student
from the University North Carolina at Pembroke. I come here as a
concerned student and longtime resident of Robeson County which
is one of the eight counties in which part of the proposed Atlantic
Coast Pipeline will pass through. Of the many issues the proposed
pipeline will bring, I wish to bring to attention both the unethical
pathing [ph] and environmental concerns that this pipeline would
impose upon the communities along its route.
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01:12:16 The proposed ACP will be disproportionately crossing
waterways of the most racially diverse and environmentally
vulnerable areas in all of North Carolina, more specifically black
and Native American communities, many of which rely on the
local water supplies for their livelihood. Many of these
communities have been unfairly informed and consulted on this
issue or in some cases not consulted at all. More particularly, the
state recognized tribes that are located along the proposed route
have yet to be appropriately consulted on this issue. And they, like
many other organizations, communities, have been given the
unlikely promise of safety for their communities, economy,
environment, and future.
01:13:06 Sustenance [ph] fishing is an important part of the Robeson
County community, yet the impacts of proposed Atlantic Coast
Pipeline on native fish populations and other aquatic organisms
within the food chain and its biological integrity have not been
sufficiently evaluated. It is particularly concerning that the
proposed Atlantic Coast Pipeline will disproportionately impact
poor people, people of color, and indigenous people in Robeson
County. The likely impacts of pipeline construction and operation
on local groundwater nor measures to prevent these impacts to our
well water have not been identified or planned.
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01:13:43 The proposed pipeline is not discriminating against who it
harms, but I cannot say the same for the companies that are
attempting to construct it. I thank you for this opportunity to allow
myself and others to voice our concerns, and I urgeno, I plead
with you that you have the concerns of myself and others all placed
into consideration during the review for the permitting of the
Atlantic Coast Pipeline. Thank you very much.
[APPLAUSE] [CHEERS]
01:14:18 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Liam Locklear [ph].
Locklear: Hello. My name is Liam Locklear. I'm a sophomore engineering
student at NC State University and the president of NC State's
American Indian Science and Engineering Society chapter. As a
North Carolinian and member of the Lumbee tribe of North
Carolina I have numerous concerns about the construction of this
pipeline, mainly how this pipeline would affect the water supplies
in the underserved communities targeted by this pipeline
throughout the state.
01:14:56 As many speakers before me have stated, this unnecessary
pipeline will monumentally affect our rivers as well as the
groundwater and forests in regions it would go through. The
communities that this proposed pipeline goes through have not
been properly consulted on all the effects that it will have. Duke
Energy and Dominion can meet their power needs without this
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dangerous and unnecessary pipeline. Needlessly endangering our
state's wildlife, water supply, and people when there are safer
alternatives is irresponsible and shortsighted.
01:15:27 I strongly urge the Department of Environmental Quality
and FERC to say no to this pipeline and pursue more long-term
solutions in clean, renewable energy. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Jameson Lowry [ph].
Lowry: Hello. My name is Jameson Lowry and I am a member of the
Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina located in Robeson County. And
upon learning more about the ACP and what preparation was put
into alerting people about its construction, I was dismayed to
discover how little effort was put into informing others about it.,
while specifically concerning tribes of North Carolina. While
federally recognized tribes, specifically the Eastern Band of
Cherokee were informed about the pipeline, state recognized tribes
were not, including my own tribe, the Lumbee, which is located in
one of the counties in which the pipeline will directly affect.
01:16:41 This is discouraging as a good portion of the pipeline will
be running through many of the counties of which these tribes are
located such as the Meherrin, Coharie, and Haliwa-Saponi [ph],
whereas it does not particularly affect the tribes of North Carolina
that were contacted, such as the Eastern Band of Cherokee which
is located within the western part of the state. While I do believe it
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is important for them to understand what is going on, I also feel
that it's more important to spread awareness about the pipeline in
the communities that it would directly affect.
01:17:14 With the introduction of this pipeline, it will personally
affect both me and my community as we live along the Lumbee
River, the Lumber River. Both my grandfather and father are avid
fisherman, and I know many people who enjoy the river for
recreational use and depend upon it for drinking water. Any
damages or leakage that could occur could damage our water
system and our ecosystems of the animals that live there. And this
is one of the many reasons that I oppose the construction of this
pipeline.
01:17:52 With such great risks of the pipeline leaking or being
damaged in any way that could damage the ecosystem and disrupt
the lives of my family members and those that I care about, I ask
that the Department of Water Resources to reconsider the
construction of this pipeline and protect our waterways. Thank
you. [APPLAUSE]
01:18:26
Wrenn:
Our next speaker is David McGowan [ph].
01:18:37
McGowan:
Good evening. My name is David McGowan. I'm executive
director of the North Carolina Petroleum Council. We're the state
office for the American Petroleum Institute, represent
approximately 650 companies in the oil and natural gas industry.
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On behalf of the North Carolina Petroleum Council I'm writing to
request approval of the 401 permit for the Atlantic Coast Pipeline
project. This project is extremely important to the state of North
Carolina for many reasons, and it will have profoundly positive
impact on the state and its citizens.
01:19:06 The Atlantic Coast Pipeline is a necessary project because
of the tremendous need the state currently has for an abundant,
lower-cost, cleaner -burning, natural gas. Natural gas use has
expanded rapidly in North Carolina in the recent past, following
the retirement of numerous coal fired power plants. Increased
demand for natural gas has also come from large manufacturers
and other industrial users in the state. In addition, consumers are
also increasingly reliant on natural gas for home heating, cooking,
and other basic domestic uses.
01:19:36 Furthermore, this project is also critical from an energy
security and an economic security standpoint. North Carolina
currently receives all of its natural gas from one pipeline that runs
in the western part of the state. Construction of the Atlantic Coast
Pipeline would provide the state with a secondary source of natural
gas to help mitigate any potential future disruptions in supply as
was experienced in the polar vortex. Approval of the Atlantic
Coast Pipeline will also help ensure the state's demand for natural
gas can be met well into the future as natural gas will be required
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to meet our energy demands for at least the next 20 to 30 years
according to federal government projections.
01:20:15 Despite suggestions to the contrary, great care has been
taken to make sure that all parties can make their voice heard and
that the public health and the environment are adequately
protected. In addition to extensive consultations with local and
state governments as well as the general public, regulators and the
companies involved have demonstrated their sincerity in receiving
thoughtful input and incorporating that into the project plans. The
upcoming final environmental [ph] impact statement will be the
culmination of that effort, and it will likely show construction of
this pipeline is protective of human health and the environment.
01:20:52 This pipeline is being planned and will be constructed and
operated with adherence to the highest possible safety and
environmental protection standards including all relevant state
water quality regulations. In summary, the ACP will help provide
reliable, affordable, cleaner -burning, natural gas to our state and do
so in an environmentally sensitive manner. In addition, it will also
facilitate greater energy security and economic security by
providing for a redundant supply of North Carolina's natural gas.
As a result, the North Carolina Petroleum Council urges the DEQ's
support and approve the 401 permit for the Atlantic Coast Pipeline.
Thank you very much. [APPLAUSE]
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Wrenn: Our next speaker is Steven May [ph].
01:21:44 May: Good afternoon. My name is Steven May, and I'm here today to
speak in favor of the Atlantic Coast Pipeline. As a resident of
North Carolina, I'm in favor of this project because of its
enormous economic benefit that it can bring to my home state.
Dominion Energy, the company behind the proposed project, has
thoroughly and carefully planned the pipeline to maximize its
benefits. Years of comprehensive studies and surveys have
resulted in a route that avoids or minimizes impacts to sensitive
areas. Over 300 reroutes across the project have been adopted to
reduce the impact to the environment and cultural resources.
01:22:16 The stream and wetland crossing technique employed as
well as the pipeline construction methods meet both state and
federal requirements designed to protect water quality.
Furthermore, the project has reviewed each stream crossing to
ensure the chosen construction method is appropriate given the
site-specific characteristics of the stream. In fact, horizontal
directional drilling is being proposed in many locations to avoid
impacts to major water bodies.
01:22:46 It is imperative to trust the extensive process that preceded
the ACP. FERC and other agencies have been carefully analyzing
potential impacts to the land, air, water, and wildlife, as well as
other resources to ensure that the project has adopted all necessary
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measures to protect the environment. The ACP has provided more
than 100,000 pages of reports and documents covering every
aspect of the project. Additionally, the project has had nearly three
years of review and input by various federal, state, and local
bodies. It is crucial that this necessary and safe project avoids
delay.
01:23:21 Natural gas is a clean, abundant, and reliable partner fuel
for renewables. The ACP is a vitally important infrastructure
project to our state's energy future. Our regional public utilities
need additional supplies of natural gases to meet the growing
energy needs of the millions of customers they serve in North
Carolina. The natural gas transported will be used to generate
cleaner [ph] electricity to heat homes and power new industries,
thus new jobs will be created including many in the communities
crossed by the pipeline's route. Natural gas is a reliable
compliment for when the sun isn't shining or the wind is not
blowing and produces far less carbon emissions than coal.
[LAUGHTER]
01:24:02 Pipelines are the safest method to transport natural gas, and
operation of the pipeline will have no impact on state water
sources. The ACP will only transport natural gas, as opposed to
oil. Natural gas is not soluble in water and will not result in a spill
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into a water body as opponents of the project would suggest.
Those are the reasons that I support the Atlantic Coast Pipeline.
F: [LAUGHS]
[APPLAUSE]
01:24:28 Wrenn: I want to remind folks to respect everyone's opinion, and also from
an audio standpoint [INDISCERNIBLE] we cannot record
accurately what's being said. So if you can keep the comments
down and noise in the background. Again, we would really
appreciate it. Thank you. The next speaker is Ashley Denise
Bruce [ph].
01:24:57 Bruce: Good evening. My name is Ashley Denise Bruce, and I'm here on
behalf of myself and my 13 -year-old son. I also work for
Sustainable Sandhills, a local environmental nonprofit, and I serve
on the executive board of the North Carolina Climate Solutions
Coalition. I agree that there are many negative impacts from the
construction of the proposed Atlantic Coast Pipeline. I must bring
to the attention of DEQ that Duke Energy, the majority partner in
the Atlantic Coast Pipeline, Duke Energy has a history of
environmental harm and most recently coal ash dumping in the
Cape Fear River. And is still in the Dan River.
01:25:33 Duke Energy cannot and the Atlantic Coast Pipeline cannot
be trusted to protect the drinking water of our communities. In
addition and specifically, the Cape Fear River is already burdened
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by nutrient runoff pollution from hog farming and the industrial
discharge including GenX. The construction of the Atlantic Coast
Pipeline will only serve to burden the Cape Fear River. At this
time I must bring also to your attention that the route is only
proposed and has not been finalized by FERC. FERC does not
have a quorum [ph] at this time. There is no way that DEQ can
adequately determine the water quality impacts of this pipeline
until FERC is fully functional. So I appeal to you, NC DEQ, to
deny water quality certification until FERC has a quorum.
01:26:32 And furthermore, as a requirement of DEQ's reasonable
anticipation of future impacts, DEQ must understand that climate
change will in fact cause more flooding and potentially impact the
Atlantic Coast Pipeline should it go into the ground. In terms of
energy need in our community, the energy information agency [ph]
as recently as 2015 expects energy demand to grow 1% annually.
Here in our region it is less than 1%. We can make this transition
to renewable energy smoothly and cleanly without the Atlantic
Coast Pipeline. Jobs and industry are already dependent on
renewable energy in our community.
01:27:25 A recent RTI study determined that Robeson County is one
of the biggest receivers of economic boom from renewable energy.
So, again, I appeal to you, DEQ, this pipeline is not needed. It
needs to be reassessed. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
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Wrenn: The next speaker is John Wagner [ph].
01:28:07 Wagner: Good evening. My name is John Wagner, and I'm here speaking
for myself and for the people of North Carolina. I was born and
raised in North Carolina, but for three years I worked with the
Georgia Department of Natural Resources and Georgia State
University as a member of the macro invertebrate team on a non -
point source pollution study that covered the streams and rivers
from the mountains to the coastal plains. And ever since I did that
I've paid a lot of attention to water, so my comments are addressed
to the Division of Water Quality and the 401 issues that you have
to decide on, and I encourage you to not permit.
01:29:02 I've read the draft environmental impact statement
carefully, especially the parts dealing with water. And there were
three words that really stood out to me. The first one was
"significant." The draft environmental impact statement had a lot
of quality comments about what would happen as a result of the
pipeline. It covered some very important points, and it did it fairly
well. But at the end of each one of those it ended with the phrase
"but there will be no significant impact." It's like if the
Department of Transportation discussed that had a blind curve that
would quadruple the deaths and then said, "But there will be no
significant impact." I encourage you to go back and put a question
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mark next to each of those statements and think about what the
impacts really would be and whether they'd be significant.
01:30:09 Second, the word "cumulative." You're talking about
cutting a path through hundreds of streams, creeks, wetlands,
pocosins, Carolina bays, isolated wetlands of all sizes. And the
word cumulative is almost not addressed in the draft environmental
statement. Affecting a single isolated wetland or a pocosin can be
possibly ignored, but the effect on all of those needs to be
addressed, and the Division of Water Quality needs to look at the
cumulative impact.
01:30:58 And finally the word "temporary." As I read the draft
environmental statement, temporary only really applied to things
that would affect buildings. And these effects that they qualify as
temporary are going to be long-term, very serious impacts on these
wetlands and the life that depends on the wetlands, and I encourage
you to really look at the long-term effects and don't take the word
temporary as a valid word for those. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Tammy Peril [ph].
01:32:13 Peril: Hello. My name is Tammy Peril. If I affiliate myself with anyone
it would be the CDC. I am a nurse, and I'm also board certified in
infection prevention and epidemiology. My reason for being here
is to speak for the public health of the people of North Carolina
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who may not be aware that their health will be affected. It's not
will it be, it's when will it be.
01:32:44 The problem is that the ACP, it isn't necessary for anyone,
no one here except for those of you that will profit from the ACP at
the expense of the health of the North Carolinians of this state, not
to mention the people in between Pennsylvania and North
Carolina. The urgency here is that the pipeline will affect the
water, soil, air, animals, plus our food and our health [ph]. Though
Duke claims that it won't, it inevitably will. The solution is just to
say no to ACP and yes to renewable energy that will keep our
environment safe, hence keeping your citizens safe and creating
more environmentally safe jobs.
01:33:48 I am asking DEQ on behalf of the people that you say no
and not approve this ACP application for the public health of those
that count on you to keep their water safe for drinking, fishing,
swimming, and much more. There is no gray area. Only Duke
wins if this application is granted, and the people of North Carolina
will be the users. So thank everyone for coming and giving their
opinions. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] [CHEERS]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is
01:34:41 Miner: Good afternoon. I am archbishop John Miner [ph]. I am the
executive pastor of Impact Church, chairman of Impact
Ecclesiastical Alliance, which is a collaboration of 300 executive -
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level clergy, bishops, and above. I am also the CEO of Impact
International, and I am a candidate for city council district eight in
Fayetteville for this year's election.
01 :35:09 Now, my purpose for being hereI found out about this on
Facebook. And that is probably why there are not many people in
this room who look like me, because we were not properly
informed of things like this. So if you would indulge me. I know
many of these meetings are fairly a formality, but if you would
indulge me for just a few moments.
01 :35:33 The Bible says that no man builds a house except he first sit
down and count up the costs [ph]. My concern is that the cost has
not been properly counted up, the cost of the effect on life,
property, and the environment. Now, my concern also is that this
pipeline was supposed to be placed through the Triangle and was
then moved into this area where we have low-income families,
where those who will be impacted are low on the economic scale.
Someone said earlier, one of the earlier speakers said that he had
full confidence in Duke Energy. I unfortunately don't share that
confidence considering that Duke could not get their billing
straight on a month-to-month basis. [APPLAUSE]
01 :36:37 I'm truly disturbed to know that my community, my
county, the city where I live has been designated and has been
called—let me get to my notes. I'm also retired [ph]
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It has been designated as a sacrifice zone. And not
just disturbed [ph]—and excuse my vernacular as a member of the
clergy. I'm outright pissed off at it, that I would be considered
sacrificial. I don't think I went to three minutes yet, but I'll stick
to your time.
01:37:21 Eighteen permanent jobs isn't worth the potential and what
appears to be the immanent damage to our water sources, the risk
of severe illnesses that will be suffered by the people of our
community, especially those who cannot afford the necessary
medical care that will be required as a result from such a pipeline
being laid. And when we talk about water—and I'm going to sit
down. I'm a preacher, so give me a second. When we talk about
water let us not forget Flint, Michigan and what the contamination
to water did there and how devastating something like that would
be in North Carolina.
01:38:04 And, again, as a representative of over 300 churches in this
area, I strongly suggest that as leaders who work for the people and
as a result of the people, when the people say "no," let the answer
be no. Thank you. [APPLAUSE] [CHEERS]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Jeff Long [ph].
01:38:46 Long: Good afternoon. My name is Jeff Long, and I too am a minister.
I'm also retired military. Approximately 10% of the world's
recoverable oil reserves are in shale rich rocks that can only be
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accessed by hydraulic fracturing. I'm going to jump down through
this. We've had other issues arise. I also have a degree in
geology. I appreciate what the one man said who has done the
rivering [ph] study and all and some of the points he brought up. I
think there's a lot of unfounded fears being raised about the
pipeline. And for one thing what's being brought down through
that pipeline is not an alien fluid; it's part of what is in this earth
that God put there. And I believe he put there—the Bible itself
said God has put oil in those hills.
01:39:39 This comes from that oil. That oil is created between 150
to 285 degrees underground. That gas comes from that, and then
it's brought to the surface. That gas is an energy rich source,
resource that we need to utilize. The amount of natural gas
recoverable from shale is estimated around 7,300 -trillion cubic feet
worldwide. There are trillions of cubic feet recoverable from other
rock formations as well. The Atlantic Coast Pipeline will facilitate
the economical and safe future transport of billions of cubic feet of
gas southward from Virginia and serve as a trunk [ph] to pick up
and distribute even more from fields which could open up in the
future feasibly along that route.
01:40:29 Pipelines like this have crisscrossed Asia and Europe for
years with little problem. Gas from deep within the earth is an
abundant source of power which is needed if America is ever to
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regain a lead in today's modern industrial economies. I have a
friend who is a leading engineer in Salerno, Italy. We went to high
school together here in America. And he told me, "Jeff," he was
looking at the windmills up there. He said, "That's the biggest
waste of taxpayer dollars you could do in America is to put up the
solar power. It only generates only about 3% of what's generated
off those windmills gets to the end of the line." We need, until we
can come up with other efficient sources of power. And how much
land do we waste around here putting up solar panels out in fields
that could be used to grow food?
01:41:22 I mean, you talk about a waste. There are other tradeoffs
involved. I was raised on a farm too, so I do look at that. I'm
currently negotiating the instillation of a new central air unit in my
house that I have recently purchased. I want it to be the most
efficient and utilize the best of both gas and electric modalities in
an energy -star approved configuration. We need gas at more
competitive prices available for all North Carolinians. We need
the jobs that will be stimulated when the electric and gas sectors
are competing in a free market system. I'm a former army officer
as well.
01:42:08 Think about the future. If we ever have an EMP attack in
America and you're all dependent on electric only and it's winter
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time, you're going to be gas as well [ph]. It's a
redundancy that's needed for our country security. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Christine Ellis [ph].
01:42:40 Ellis: Christine Ellis, Winyah Rivers as well as EcoRobeson. The
proposed ACP will compromise our rivers, streams, and wetlands.
I believe it's unnecessary and risky. And I believe that the
information provided you is not adequate for you to provide a
certification for the water quality of North Carolina. One of the
points that I wanted to make is that the proposed ACP will cross
eight water supply watersheds. And you know the numbers in
terms of permanently impacting and temporarily impacting streams
and wetlands.
01:43:25 I think that's unprecedented. So therefore we hold you to
the highest standard to protect our water quality and our
community's health. But today I am here because the Lumber
River is my baby. That's the watershed over which I watch, and it
has not, in my opinion, being given the love and respect in either
the DEIS or the water certification application. Speaking of water
supply watersheds, the ACP will cross not only through the
watershed but also through areas of great importance in our
Lumber River watershed.
01:44:10 Our water supply is ground water under the direct influence
of surface water. Nowhere in the applications have I seen
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recognition of that and the potential for the interconnection and the
cross contamination of the two. So I ask you to really pay much
more attention to the Lumber River watershed. In addition, people
have mentioned the cumulative impacts. And, yes, there are very
few cumulative impacts mentioned in the information. And, again,
in particular with the Lumber River watershed, both named and
unnamed streams and wetlands that are treated as individually
impacted eventually drain into other larger tributaries and into the
Lumber River, and that cumulative impact on water quality in
those communities is very important.
01 :45:09 As other people have mentioned, Robeson County is a
community that is generally poor, rural community, and sustenance
fishing is an important part of our community. Again, nowhere in
the document have I seen a true evaluation of the natural heritage
of our area, the protected species of plant and animal life that
really need to be identified and protected. The Lumber River
really needs some love. It's a very important watershed, natural
and scenic, designated state and federally, home of the Lumber
River State Park, home to the Lumbee people, and an area that
Robesonians deserve to be protected. Thank you so much.
[APPLAUSE] [CHEERS]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Mable Mary
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01:46:14 Osterbrink: I'm Maryanne Osterbrink [ph]. Born near Chicago originally. I go
by Mable. I took a conservation pledge as a young Girl Scout
when I was about nine years old, and I meant that pledge for the
earth, to conserve especially the United State's natural resources.
And I have been following that pledge, and it keeps me way too
busy that I would like to be actually, especially in the last few
years.
01:46:38 I served on the town conservation commission in the 1990s,
whose mission is to protect wetlands. This is federal law. As you
know, wetlands are federally protected for a reason. I studied and
advocated for our wetlands around that town. And I just walked
the pipeline, walked along the route, and it was lovely to see the
rural area that it has been decided to be put in, because people in
the Triangle or whatever would not agree with this being near their
water sources. And is right.
01:47:12 We need to keep the water that we have in North Carolina,
that we still have. There are droughts in North Carolina, you
know. We can't afford to lose water. And just pipeline
construction alone, I read, would waste at least 100 -million gallons
of water, just the construction process, of freshwater that we need.
And then it affects the animals, of course, and the plants
downstream because of that, taking that water, besides the harm to
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our shallow water table here in North Carolina from the guaranteed
leaks and possible explosions.
01:47:52 There have been over 300 pipeline explosions in the last 50
years in the United States. So that is not a big maybe. That's
almost—well, it scares me and everybody, I'm sure. It's a very
scary thing. Just that alone for me is enough, just the explosion,
but anyway. I don't trust Duke or Dominion. Duke is a huge
global corporation. Corporations profit is their motive. That's
their main existence, is profit. That's all they want. Actually in
Georgia, recently in Georgia, and in Massachusetts pipeline
companies pulled out because they could not get the people to pay
for the building of the pipeline. But unfortunately here in North
Carolina we're stuck with the bill for everything including the
building. So they like it here for that reason. They can charge us
for the whole thing and pollute the water. The water will
pipelines do leak, as you have heard, I'm sure.
01:48:53 And the coal ash issue has already been brought up, so I do
not trust them. That's been a debacle, and they still don't know
what they're doing with that, the right way [ph]. And they want to
charge us for that too. That just came out, so there you go. I don't
trust them. And also for solar Duke only spends about 1% of their
effort for solar energy. So they talk big, but they don't do it. And
they're in with all the other major energy corporations in the U.S.
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pushing these pipelines all over the country so that they can make a
big profit because they're guaranteed a profit. So it's not
necessary, but it's necessary for their bottom line to get bigger and
bigger every quarter.
01:49:40 M: Mrs. Osterbrink, that's your time.
Osterbrink: Okay. I wasn't watching the signs. I was thinking because I was
talking. Okay, well, I made my main points, and thanks for
listening. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: The next speaker is Luis Nino [ph].
01:50:08 Nino: Good evening. My name is Luis Nino, and I would like to speak
on behalf of Cumberland County Carrying Voices [ph]. We have
been fighting to keep our properties in our own hands instead of
Atlantic Coast Pipeline's. This is an opportunity that we have
tonight to talk to this department to let you know that we have
been doing a lot of pains to maintain our properties. As a resident
and as a concerned citizen of this county, we are very concerned of
what has been happening with this pipeline. And tonight you
heard about many people, how this is going to affect our water.
And, I mean, that is so important, you know, for our livelihood.
And it's going to affect everything. It's so important thatI mean,
we just can't live without it.
01:51:57 Now, the reason we are here tonight is because we have
this opportunity. It's something that we never had before. And
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things always have been sort of tricky for us. And I'm glad that
we're here tonight to let you know that as a department you have a
responsibility to take care of our environment. So we want you to
do the best. We want you to do all the things that you are
supposed to do, all the appropriate standards that the North
Carolina Department of Environmental Quality requires. And so it
is your responsibility, as a department of resources for the water
[ph]. So I'm glad tonight that I am here just talking about this
issue, which has been really a nightmare for all of us landowners
and concerned citizens. Thank you very much. [APPLAUSE]
01:53:43 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Martha Howell [ph]. Mrs. Howell
[INDISCERNIBLE]. All right. The next speaker is Kim Geddes
[Ph]
01:54:17 Geddes: My name is Kim Geddes. I'm not affiliated with any organization.
I'm here representing myself and my family. I'm a native North
Carolinian and currently live in Moore County. My husband and I
own a small farm where we raise horses and care for the branch of
Drowning Creek that runs through our property. I am here tonight
to share how the Cape Fear River has shaped my family's history
and to express my fears about eminent domain and the adverse
impact the Atlantic Coast Pipeline will have on waterways and
private land.
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01:54:55 My family has a long history of attachment to the land and
water of this area. In the early 1700s my ancestors, the Letts [ph],
decided to move from Wilmington westward, and they navigated
up the Cape Fear River to find suitable farmland. They rode
through Bladen County and stayed there for a while near the area
called Cross Creek. That area is now called Fayetteville. They
continued migrating up the river, but travel was difficult due to the
rapids on the Cape Fear. Sometimes the pioneers had to row their
boats to the shores and tote the boats past the falls then put the
boats back in the water. But they persevered and eventually put
down roots near Buckhorn Falls. Here the Letts found what they
were looking for, an abundance of rich bottomland [ph] for
growing cotton and other crops and access to pristine water.
01:55:55 The settlers marked their chosen site and eventually called
it Letts Landing. It is designated with a marker today on the Cape
Fear River. Why am I telling you this story? The Letts and their
decedents have been fighting to hold onto this land and protect the
Cape Fear River and nearby waterways ever since they settled.
Small farmers and landowners don't just preserve the land, but
they also protect the water that runs through it because the water is
vital to sustaining their families, their corps, and livestock.
Removing a landowner's rights through the eminent domain
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process removes the caretaker of many of our streams and rivers
that run through landowner's properties.
01:56:42 The Atlantic Coast Pipeline will take land away from
families who have protected the land and its waterways for many
generations. But how sustainable is fracking? How long will the
gas infrastructure be required? This project disrupts families who
have conserved land and water for centuries to support a project
that will only have a 40 or 50 -year lifespan. I object to the idea
that companies can take private property and adversely impact our
waterways.
01:57:15 Onetime payments from corporations that attempt to
compensate owners for their land do not make up for what is being
lost that can never be restored. I thank you for this opportunity to
share the story of my family and the importance that the Cape Fear
River has had in our history, not only for my family but for the
history of North Carolina and for the culture of North Carolina.
Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Keely Wood.
01:58:06 K. Wood: My name is Keely Wood. I'm with EnvironmentaLEE and Clean
water for North Carolina. You're in a dreamland if you think that
they can construct this ACP without adverse effects to streams,
rivers, wetlands, groundwater, aquatic life, human life, and
environmental justice. The use of eminent domain for private
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companies is just un-American. In the past 30 years FERC has
granted certificates to all but two U.S. pipeline projects with no
credible assessment of an actual needed project, showing FERC is
to be influenced by the big money, the big lobbyists, the big greed
of industry and not looking out for the residents.
01:58:50 I'm not confident on Duke Energy, knowing how they
treated the people around the coal ash. And we have people still
living on bottled water two years later. And they just announced a
14% price increase. This is not route 95. Not everyone is going to
be using this pipeline. This pipeline is for industry, not for us to
cook and not for us to heat. The Division of Water Resources
permit review must require measures to protect the waters, existing
uses of water resources. The ACP project will cross nearly seven
miles of streams and destroy nearly 20 [ph] acres of forest with
riverside vegetation, which will serve as buffers to prevent polluted
runoff into those streams. No protocols are in place to prevent
impact such as compaction [ph] with affecting recharge of shallow
aquifers or infiltration of toxic and hazardous materials including
fuels, oils, lubricants, hydraulic fluids, and explosives.
01:59:55 Areas of shallow bedrock must be surveyed for heavy
metals, radio active materials, acid producing rocks with the
potential to contaminate water resources. There are a large number
of private wells within 150 feet of the pipeline workspace in Nash
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and Johnston and Cumberland Counties. Service disturbances
clearing and trenching can impact both service, water drainage,
and ground water recharge patterns, with the largest impacts to
shallow surface aquifers [ph].
02:00:29 The pipeline would have a negative impact on areas
designated by the state as primary nursery areas that are important
for early growth and development of wild range of fish and
crustacean species in the Cape Fear, Roanoke, and Neuse Rivers.
Given the number of listed and petitioned endangered freshwater
mussels and water bodies crossed by the ACP, a far more detailed
assessment of these impacts of these species needs requested and
investigated [ph]. My family, North Carolina residents whom
DEQ is supposed to protect and be the good stewards of the land,
ask the Division of Water Resources not to grant a 401 permit for
the ACP. And I'll put more in writing and send them to you.
[APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: The next speaker is Danny Gunner [ph]. Mr. Gunner? Okay.
Next speaker is Cary Rogers [ph].
02:02:01 Rodgers: Just to let everyone know, I'm number 36. [LAUGHTER] I don't
know what your number is. Anyway, my name is Pastor Cary
Rogers, and I am involved because a few years ago someone at the
church informed me about fracking in Anson Count. And then I
got involved with that and put together a resolution and actually a
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moratorium to stop that monstrosity there. And then I was asked
to join Blue Ridge officially [ph] to help other
residents like myself to stop this environmental disaster.
02:02:42 So I represent Blue Ridge and many other organizations
that we have actually put together, grassroots organizations up and
down the pipeline of landowners who say no. And I pray tonight
that you will listen to our concerns. I've had a lot of experience in
the past four years of working as a community organizer and
dealing with the state and dealing with EPA and FERC. And I'll
be honest with you; tonight you can rectify some things because
over the many years that I've been dealing with it now they listen
to us but do nothing. This is your opportunity to do something
because you already know the water will be impacted. And you all
have detailed information on that, so I'm not even going to go
through all those details right now.
02:03:42 You know that pipelines leak. I need water. My body
depends on water. It doesn't depend on natural gas. Natural gas is
not clean. Let's get that. Let's say it again; natural gas is not
clean. But we need clean water to survive. I drink water; I bathe
in water; I baptize in water, so I need clean water. But another
major thing that has to be addressed in which the ACP has
neglected majorly. It completely fails to address the environmental
justice issue that directly impacts North Carolina. Is it just
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coincidence that the two poorest communities are directly
impacted, Robeson County and Northampton County. And they
totally ignore the cumulative impacts of those very sensitive
communities.
02:04:43 So I pray today that you will look at the environmental
justice, that you actually have a duty to do that legally. This has
been ignored, so I pray and hope that you don't ignore what's
being said tonight and especially the environmental justice
impacts. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Hanah Ehrenreich [ph].
02:05:15 Ehrenreich: Good evening, and thank you for being here. I'm Hanah
Ehrenreich from Sustainable Sandhills, and do want to apologize
for my spontaneous yet ungracious response to the earlier
gentleman. It was kind of funny. We do appreciate NC DEQ and
the permitting process that it does protect our waterways.
Sustainable Sandhills is an environmental nonprofit that represents
Lee County, Harnett County, Cumberland County, and Robeson
County in terms of effected counties by this pipeline, and we have
not received a finalized route plan from Dominion or Duke or the
ACP LLC.
02:05:53 It speaks to the lack of preparation in this permit process
and the fact that this is not a project that is advanced enough to go
forward. I also have noted that in the permit process the high
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water table that the 36 -inch diameter pipeline goes through has not
been accounted for. Specifically too, in terms of EMT and
emergency preparation, the horizontal drilling in terms of
inadvertent returns but spills, we have confirmation from the City
of Fayetteville who would be called in in the event of a spill
specifically under the Cape Fear River that they don't have hoses
or nodules [ph] that would be able to address a spill underneath the
river in that zone. We also are told that—sorry I lost my place.
02:06:46 We are also told that the cutoff valves in the rural areas are
too far apart according to our emergency services, to cut off with
any veracity in the event of a spill or unintended [ph] leak. We
would have more damage in that case, specifically to the watershed
of the Cape Fear River. We also note no diffuse flow plan. That is
a huge issue for us. In terms of protection of riparian barriers, one
of the things that, as you well know, the NC Wildlife Resources
Council has a Green Growth Toolbox plan for riparian barriers,
and none of that has been consulted in this process. We would like
to see that included.
02:07:24 In terms of the 401 permitting process replacement of
existing use through remediation, there are 1.8 million people
reliant on this drinking water source. We also have more than $30
million in recreation and business generated through this part of
the Cape Fear River. We do not see any ability for this pipeline
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company or this shell company, thank you, to replace that existing
resource should damage occur. And we would like to see a
detailed analysis of how that could be possible.
02:07:56 I would like to note that the coal ash pumping 61 million
gallons in 2014 of slurry happened in a tributary of the Cape Fear
River. We have experienced severe economic and environmental
impacts from that. And it has not been remediated to our
satisfaction. And we would like that to reflect in the 401
permitting process for the same company on behalf of that. Thank
you. No environmental benefit and terrific environmental risk is
involved in this pipeline. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: The next speaker is
02:08:39 Modde: My name is Douglas Modde [ph]. I'm a retired intel analyst for
the United States Army. I also worked on the environmental
impact statement for the nuclear power plant. I also looked at the
situation on the atom smasher [ph] in Batavia, Illinois. And
currently after I have reviewed this information that this proposed
project will permanently impact three football fields, three football
fields or less out of 186 miles. Whitewash. Whitewash. I think
it's going to impact more than that.
02:09:22 So that's just one little thing that I've looked at. The other
thing is the Cape Fear River, it's going to be stagnant in 17 years.
People won't have drinking water. Brunswick County in about 80
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years will have—in less than 80 years it will become septic, and
that will mean you will have orange blooms up and down the Cape
Fear River. So they're worried about their drinking water now,
and they have 16 years to 17 years to worry about it. Now in this
proposal it's 30 years. We're going to have more problems if you
just add onto it. So I am against this proposal for that reason.
02:10:09 We need to keep and maintain our water supply the best we
can. And the sediment and the effect on the animal life, all of it,
and then review the environmental impact statements like the man
said earlier, no significant, nothing is going to happen. Well,
something is going to happen, and what if they put it in. And
that's all I have to say. You have a good day. [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Joe Barnes, Jr [ph].
02:11:04 Barnes: Good evening. My name is Joe Barnes, Jr., and I'm a field rep
with Local 980 out of Roanoke, Virginia. And I'm here in support
of the Atlantic Coast Pipeline on behalf of my union and all the
pipeline workers that I have worked with in the past. And I have a
written statement, and it reads as follows.
02:11:25 Throughout this lengthy process FERC and other agencies
have reviewed the analyzing potential impacts to the land, air, and
water quality, wildlife, and other resources to ensure the project
has adopted all necessary measures to protect the environment.
The ACP has provided more than 100,000 pages of reports and
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documentation covering every aspect of this project. This project
has had nearly three years of review and input by various federal,
state, and local bodies. Don't delay this project.
02:12:07 The ACP is a vitally important infrastructure project. Our
regions public utilities need additional supplies of natural gas to
meet the growing energy needs of millions of customers they serve
in Virginia and North Carolina. The gas transported will be used
to generate cleaner electricity to heat homes and power new
industries creating American jobs including in many of the
communities crossed by the pipeline's route. We, the workers,
take great pride in building extremely safe pipelines. We live here.
We hunt and fish here. We are not going to destroy our state. We
need this pipeline. We can put it in safe and with very little impact
to the landowners or the environment.
02:13:02 And, in closing, I've personally with pipeline before. I
mean, I know people have their opinion, and I respectfully disagree
with the ones that oppose it. But I actually work with pipeline.
And for what it did for my family as a worker—and I started out as
a laborer, and now I'm a field rep with Local 980—it touched me
and it put me to the point where I understand what they're saying,
but at the same time, I'm siding with what I want to do [ph]
because that's what I want to do, and that's how I made it out of
where I was at in my life. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
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Wrenn: Our next speaker is Felipe Lopez [ph].
02:13:55 Lopez: Good evening. My name is Felipe Lopez, and I'm also here in
support of the project and on behalf of the union workers who
build these projects. The Atlantic Coast Pipeline has been studied,
checked, and rechecked. The ACP route has over 300 reroutes
across the project to reduce impacts of environmental and cultural
historic resources and threatened and endangered species. Stream
and wetland crossings, techniques, and pipeline construction
methods meet state and federal requirements designed to protect
water quality. The project has reviewed each stream crossing to
ensure the chosen construction method is appropriate given the
site-specific characteristics of the stream.
02:14:50 Horizontal directional drilling is being proposed in many
locations to avoid impacts to major [ph] water bodies. Pipelines
are the safest method to transport natural gas, and the operation of
pipelines will not impact water resources. The ACP will transport
natural gas. It is not an oil pipeline. We work on pipeline. We are
your neighbors. We are not going to destroy North Carolina. We
will put it in safe. When we are finished we won't know is a
pipeline is in the ground. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
02:15:37 F: Excuse me. Can people state where they live from [ph]? Because
if they're coming from out of state I think that we need to know
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that because this reflects our state and our waters and our river
ways, not journeymen [ph] from other states.
M: We asked that people make an affiliation and the speakers have
done that, as well as their name. We
F: Well, I understand they've been out of state. A few of these
people are journeymen, and they're from another state. And I
think we deserve the right to know that.
02:16:09 M: I appreciate that. It's not required as part of this review [ph]
F: I'm just simply asking.
02:16:15 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Robbie Goins [ph].
02:16:37 Goins: Thank you. Thank you for letting me speak tonight. My name is
Robbie Goins. I'm from Robeson County. I'm a Native
American, part of the Lumbee Tribe. I'm also affiliated with a
group called EcoRobeson where we try to bring awareness to the
county for issues like this.
02:16:56 I like your map up here. It kind of shows where the
pipeline is going to end. And where that pipeline ends is adjacent
to my family's land. And that pipeline is not only going to end
there; it also is going to connect a station, a power station in
Rockingham County. There's already a pipeline there that goes to
Rockingham, and it feeds Robeson County with gas, methane gas.
So this pipeline is going to come in, and it's going to be adjacent to
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my family's land. It also is going to affect Robeson County
because it's going to travers across the county and hit numerous
swamps.
02:17:40 You've got Burnt Swamp; you've got Richland Swamp;
you've got Big Marsh Swamp; you've got other waterways that
lead to the Robeson County natural scenic river, the Lumbee,
Lumber River. So I see this every day on my commute to work. I
work in Saint Pauls, North Carolina, which is north of Lumberton.
And on this route I cross all these waterways. I know the route
that this pipeline is going to take. And I know that if we have
something like we had with Hurricane Matthew a year ago, almost
a year to date, this—if we have that type of water and this pipe
isn't put in properly, that has a chance to actually potentially harm
a lot of people with contaminating their water supply [ph].
02:18:39 I know that Dominion and Duke, they tout these jobs that
are coming to the people. They're not coming to North Carolina.
As you have heard, they're coming from people from out of state,
people who are going to get high rates in their pay rate. They're
going to get a per diem every day. And that burden, that payment
is going to come out of North Carolina taxpayers. So the North
Carolinians are not going to prosper from this. It's going to affect
us. It's going to affect our water and our natural resources. It's
going to cross a lot of our waterways. It's going to harm not only
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the Lumber River; it's going to harm the Cape Fear River. It's
going to harm the Neuse River and other waterways up and down
that route.
02:19:26 It's funny how the dot there stops. And it's my land that's
right across from where it's going to end. And for a lot of you it's
not going to affect you. It's not in your backyard. It's not going to
be adjacent to you. They're wanting to put in a new metering
station right there. It's an eyesore already, and it's going to be an
eyesore when they put it in. And it's going to affect other people's
land. It's going to affect farms. And as growing up, as a kid I
grew up on the Lumber River. I swam the Lumber River. And if
it becomes contaminated, my kids won't be able to have the same
experience and enjoy that waterway. And I thank you for the time.
Thanks. [APPLAUSE]
02:20:18 Wrenn: Our next speaker is Merriam Saied [ph].
Saied: Hello, my name is Merriam. I study energy justice, and I speak for
myself. To say that this pipeline won't leak is a flat out lie. It's
not a question of if it will leak but when and how many times.
There is not a single pipeline in the entirety of the United States
that has not leaked. And leaks are not known until at least two
months, usually until the landowners complain because their crops
and their animals have died. Do you think really that this company
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will really manage its pipeline to the point that it can protect itself
from nature?
02:21:08 Military pipelines have also been a huge problem. Because
pipelines near military bases—and we live near one of the largest
military bases in America—are subject to terrorism, they're
protected by the TSA [ph]. So to think that this might not become
a natural security issue is ridiculous. This will not create jobs.
This will not create energy. This will not decrease the cost of
energy. This will only affect the poor, the black, the Native
American communities that cannot afford to even pay for what will
happen to them.
02:21:44 What we see with pipelines is that energy prices tend to
increase. Rent increases as well. Do you really think that the poor,
the black, the Native American communities that will be affected
by this will simply not be able to be subject to this also? 1.8
million people drink from the Cape Fear water [ph]. The bare
minimum regulations that the U.S. has now that has decreased
since the '60s, the bare minimum is not enough for 1.8 million
people that might die. Natural gas is not natural. It comes from
breaking rock under the surface. That breaking the rock can cause
earthquakes. Those earthquakes cause leaks that cause the water to
be contaminated with everything from cement, to methane, to
radioactive material.
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02:22:46 We have a moratorium that has a ban on hydrofracking [ph]
in North Carolina [ph]. Other states do not have right now. This
will make people in Pennsylvania be drinking radioactive water to
continue a dying industry. We have the solutions right now. We
have renewable energy. We can do this. We do not need a failing
industry to continue to starve out people and starve out our river
water for their barely there profits [ph]. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE] [CHEERS]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is
02:23:40 Self Good evening. My name is Deb Self [ph], and I am here tonight
speaking for myself, ironically enough. I am a staff member of
Sierra Club, but I also grew up swimming and fishing in North
Carolina waters, and I bird [ph] in the swamps here. And this is a
personal issue for me as well. I want to thank the Department of
Environmental Quality for agreeing to do an individual 401
application. I think that's really important. And I appreciate that
you have announced that you have a complete application, but I
don't think you have adequate information to issue a certification.
02:24:22 There is a lot of missing information about sediment
control. There is a lot of missing information about spill control.
There is a lot of missing information about construction. There is
a lot of misguided plans for constructing a dam and trying to fish
out by hand the endangered fish and mussels and move them
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somewhere and then let the water go back through. Kind of silly
[ph]. You know, to me this is a really important I'm from
Alabama. And I'm not a big fan of states rights, but I think that
this is one of the really important states rights.
02:25:06 North Carolina is a sovereign entity that has the duty to
protect its waterways. We've had New Jersey stand up, and we've
had New York stand up when they were given an application by a
pipeline applicant that they deemed not sufficient for
demonstrating the water quality standards wouldn't be violated.
They rejected that certification appropriately. And I know that
usually when you get an application for a permit, you give it with
conditions. I neglected to say that I'm a geologist with a water
quality background. And I also am a oil spill responder.
02:25:54 I know that a lot of permits are given with conditions on
them, but in this case this permit is different, and you can't really
mitigate any long-term impacts. You're not allowed under state
and federal law to issue a certification unless Duke and Dominion
have demonstrated that there won't be a water quality impact. I
also don't think that this application sufficiently addresses the need
for this pipeline. Obviously Sierra Club is going to send in a lot of
written comments, but I just want to say North Carolina Utilities
Commission has filed an objection with FERC [ph] saying that
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Duke and Dominion have not demonstrated the need for this
pipeline.
02:26:35 All they have demonstrated is that they want a 14% return
on equity for shareholders, and that they have not provided any
actual market data. Given that, I think that's another reason that
you cannot issue the certification. Thank you for the opportunity
to speak. And thank you so much, all you community folks, for
being out here and fighting for North Carolina's waterways.
[APPLAUSE] [CHEERS]
Wrenn: Our next speaker is Hunter Stewart [ph].
02:27:16 Stewart: My name is Hunter Stewart, and I'm here just myself I couldn't'
get a single person I know to come here with me because they
were all too busy watching TV or something. I really don't know.
But I've heardI have something written out that I was going to
say, but I don't feel the need to say it anymore because most
people have just regurgitated the same thing over and over, just
constantly just jobs this, jobs that. Everybody knows that that's
not going to happen here. And everybody knows that a lot of
people here with these yes stickers are getting paid to be here
tonight. But nobody is really saying anything about that either.
[APPLAUSE]
02:27:51 And my main concern is how much money are they going
to pay our government to build this pipeline, each individual
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congressman, each individual other human being that stands up
there everyday supposedly representing us. But, ha, that is a joke,
and everybody laughs in their face every day. And everybody
knows that it's just a joke, but they're still here entertaining this
stuff And I don't know why, but we are. And I hope something
good happens out of us entertaining this, because it doesn't seem
like anything good has happened anywhere else in our country
when people try to fight these types of things. But I hope that we
can finally come together and get something done.
02:28:31 But what this map does, it shows in West Virginia where
this is going to be coming from, and it doesn't—and no one has
discussed or talked about all the problems that in West Virginia
they're having right now with their fracking. The people there
don't even have water. The families there that are trying to live off
the land can't even live off the land. But I understand the
government doesn't want us living off the land. They want us
depending on their water source PWC, which is not even water.
It's garbage to start with here in our city, Fayetteville. We don't
have our own drinking water worth drinking from our own
02:29:03 I just hope that somebody can see that what's going to
happen here is not going to be in favor of anybody that lives in
North Carolina, and it's not going to be in any favor of anybody
that lives in Virginia, and it's not going to be in the favor of the
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people that live in South Carolina when it keeps on going on down
to Georgia and probably on as far as it will go [ph]. There is no
telling how long they'll want this thing to go. But I don't want to
cut off anybody else's time. I want everybody to have a chance to
speak. And I'm just going to cutoff right there, because I don't
want to get to ranty [ph]. You ladies and gentleman have a good
evening. [CHEERS] [APPLAUSE]
Wrenn: The next speaker is Adrienne Kennedy [ph].
02:30:04 Kennedy: Good evening. My name is Adrienne Kennedy. I'm from
Lumberton, North Carolina, from South Lumberton. I had had no
idea that the pipeline was proposed to interrupt my county until I
became a hurricane flood victim of Hurricane Matthew. I'm
probably the only black woman in here that is considered a
hurricane victim. And I say I'm a victim because I'm still
surviving in my county from the effects of the hurricane.
02:30:33 As my research continued, I started to put words together
through these readings about disasters whether manmade or by
natural disaster. And some of the terms came up like a disruption
of climate systems and the uncertainties of the impacts of dot dot
dot [ph]. And it just didn't rest well with me. I'm from South
Lumberton four blocks from the Lumber River. I swim there. I
take my kids there. Well, I used to until I was displaced. And I
live about 10 minutes away from Robbie. And I asked Robbie one
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day. I said, "Robbie, where is this pipeline?" And he started
giving me the description of the highway and the restaurant that
was near it. And he said, "My land is across the street from there."
And so from that day forward it has become an interest to me to
find out why is it coming to my county and why is it considered
coming to my county now after this hurricane has tore up my
neighborhood and tore up my county.
02:31:34 I still sleep every night with the if. if this pipeline is here
and what will happen. I have to sleep with a personal if. We are
planned to flood again within one to five years. And in a recovery
stage there's stages to this recovery. So right now we're supposed
to be in the recovery and rebuild stage, but we are far from it. I
couldn't imagine this pipeline coming here and causing any kind of
catastrophic situations that would hurt me or hurt my family. The
community goes through recovery every day. I wouldn't put this
pipeline near you, and I wouldn't put it near you, and I don't know
you. But I know if it hurts you that I would reconsider where it's
supposed to go and what it's supposed to do.
02:32:25 I still witness every day survival people, people that I had
to rescue from dirty and muddy, nasty water. I still witness people
that cannot go back home. I still have to witness people that come
into my store every day asking for water. I wouldn't want it to be
me, and I wouldn't want it to be you. But as my grandma says,
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"Live long enough and it will be you." This is affecting the poor.
And one day it's going to affect somebody else. And we wouldn't
want the choice to be made for you whether you had to drink or
need one case of water or two cases of water. So I say less
pollution and more solutions. [CHEERS] [APPLAUSE]
02:33:22 Wrenn: That was our last speaker. If we have any other folks who have
not spoken tonight and you would like to say something, you are
welcome to come forward at this time. If there are other folks who
have spoken already who have further comments they would like
to make. Would you state your name again for me, please?
02:33:55 Schrader: I sure will. My name is Anne Schrader. I live here in Fayetteville.
I'm from Fayetteville, not from another state. I'm from here.
[LAUGHTER] My water, my state. This is just the last part of
what I wanted to say.
02:34:07 The citizens of this state request and look to you, to your
department, the Department of Environmental Quality, the
policymakers affecting our safe wellbeing to use the full extent of
the law to protect North Carolina's life -providing waterways and
to demonstrate three things. One, sound decision and
policymaking that is fully researched and fact based. If you look at
the facts, they speak for themselves. This is bad for North
Carolina. It will never ever be good for North Carolina.
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02:34:43 Number two, as a leader and overseer of our wellbeing and
our clean waterways, please use and demonstrate vision, the vision
for long-term sustainability and survival of our state and for future
generations. This is an obvious short-term money gain. They're
not thinking about long term, which is all about renewable energy.
When we frack this nation and deplete all of the natural fossil fuel,
then what? Then will we use our solar and our wind and our tidal
that is free and clean? Why wait until we decimate this entire
beautiful country of ours with pipelines like we're doing right
now? They're leaking everywhere. I moved here from San Diego
a couple of years ago, and there was a pipeline that leaked for over
two months in California. Okay? This is happening.
02:35:36 And, number three, please demonstrate the courage to go
against the power and money -hungry corporations and lobbyists to
make healthy, sustainable, and common-sense—this is common-
sense—common-sense decisions for North Carolina so clearly
right before you. The fact that we even have this hearing is sad to
me when we look at what's happening in the world. Okay?
02:36:02 And finally I urge you, the North Carolina Department of
Environmental Quality to keep the citizens and our waterways of
our precious state of North Carolina safe and to fully reject a
known polluter, Duke Energy's unnecessary and toxic Atlantic
Coast Pipeline [ph]. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
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02:36:34 L. Modde: Yes, my name is Lisa Modde [ph]. And I live here in Hope Mills
[ph]. And I am speaking for myself and my husband, Douglas
Modde. My husband has been teaching me a lot about this and
taking me places along around these places. And I've learned a lot
from my husband and from these meetings he's taken me to.
02:37:19 And I don't think anybody in North Carolina could really
clean up the water we have in North Carolina, to tell you the God's
honest truth. The coal ash and what it is, sweetie?
Modde: Petroleum products, GenX [ph].
L. Modde: The petroleum and GenX and there is all kinds of things in the
water that my husband called all the companies, and all they said
was, "I'm sorry. We can't help you." You know, "You've got to
call another company to help you. We can't help you. We can't
help you. We can't get you clean water." And then one person
came by and said, "Oh, you put this up and you'll get clean water
on your spigot," you know, on your—and I'm thinking, "You
know, that reminds me of my sister." She used to tell me, "Lisa,
go and get some water out of the faucet." And I thought my you
know, I really remember a long time ago I learned on the news that
if you drink water out of the faucet, it's not clean. It is really not
clean water out of the spigot. It's dirty water you're drinking.
02:39:30 And even out of your—if you have a refrigerator that has
the thing, that's not clean water either you're drinking. I mean, if
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you make Kool-Aid, you're not drinking Kool-Aid, clean Kool-
Aid or anything. Somebody in this world, not even the president
cares about this, our projects [ph]. I mean, who is going to keep
our nation clean and give up and help us before we drop down? I
want an answer and I want it now. By golly, I need it, and we need
it. North Carolina needs it. South Carolina needs it. I've lived in
Durham. I was born in Durham. And, by golly, I lived in Chapel
Hill too. And I moved to Fayetteville. And this—I've learned a
lot from everybody and all the meetings. And I'm sick and tired of
getting sick. I have epilepsy. I have to take water with my
medications. And I am reallyI got two dogs that I have to take
care of, and I don't want them to go away just like that, a snap in
the please, please let somebody, call somebody, shout out
somebody, help [ph]. We need, Carolina needs help. Please. We
need help here. [APPLAUSE] And now.
02:41:48 T. Clark: My name is Tom Clark [ph], and I would just like to thank
everybody that's here tonight, even the people, the gentleman
talking about jobs, because I understand they're trying to protect
their family. But their family is in Virginia. Their family is in
South Carolina. Their family is in another county. It's not even in
Cumberland County [ph]. This is the western part of the state [ph].
But they're here trying to protect their family. So I respect that.
But I also demand the same respect for my family that lives along
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that thin red line. That's my family's welfare. When we go to
sleep at night with this proposed pipeline, every night when we go
to sleep there is no guarantee we would even wake up.
02:42:28 And every drink of water we take, every time my
granddaughter comes to our house, every time I go put water in my
little horses' buckets there's no guarantee that I'm not giving them
poison. So I respect you for being here tonight and speaking up for
your family, so I demand the same respect for my family. And I
do not envy you people. I respect you, but I do not envy you.
You've got a heavy job. And I just ask that the good lord will lead
you in the right way, because I know what the right way is going to
be. He made this earth, and he didn't mean for men to mess it up,
and that's what the Atlantic Coast Pipeline is going to do. And
that's what Dominion is going to do.
02:43:11 And you know what they do it for? They do it for thin
piece of paper. The good lord gave us sun; he gave us wind. That
thin piece of paper don't mean a thing to him. So I'll just keep you
in my prayers. [APPLAUSE]
M: I'm sorry. Could you state your name again?
T. Clark: Tom Clark.
M: Tom Clark. Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
02:43:36 H. Goins: Hi. My name is Hannah Goins [ph], and I'm a member of the
Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina, the state recognized tribe that
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wasn't notified about the pipeline being here. I wasn't going to
speak today because I have really bad anxiety, so please forgive
me if I stumble or stutter or whatever. But I am a student at the
University of North Carolina at Pembroke. And I study American
Indian studies. And I was a flood victim. I have a couple of
friends that spoke [ph] that went to different universities, and they
were members of the tribe, and they talked about, you know, the
different resources. And we all know that there are different
resources, there are different avenues that we can take. But my
apartment was flooded because of Hurricane Matthew. We never
thought that was going to happen. We thought we would just be
rained out that day.
02:44:26 And I woke up from going to a party the night before, and
my best friend who is really quiet, never speaks, was screaming.
And she was crying. And didn't know what was happening. So
she is waking me up at 10:00 on a Saturday, and I'm confused.
You know, we're supposed to be sleeping in, and I'm like, "What?
What the hell?" And so I tried to get out of my bed and step into
water. And there's inches of water. So we're rushing to get
everything we can packed away, our laptops, our phones, our
clothes. And just about everything was destroyed.
02:45:03 And I'm really thankful that the water that I did step into
and the water I had to walls through and move my car through and
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walls to get to the other side of town where her family was wasn't
contaminated, because a lot of that water got into my mouth. It got
into all of my clothes. There was mold. There was mold in my
car. And I hate to know that that would happen again and the side
effects could be lethal to me, to my friends, to my family.
02:45:38 I think about Robeson County and how we were without
water for about a week without electricity and water and gas and
how all of us were just so distraught. We didn't know what to do
without these things that are so common to us. And I hate to think
that we're ever in that position where we have to do that everyday
to where I'm in a position where is or various
other places across the country, especially for something we didn't
ask for, something that's not helping us.
02:46:11 So I ask that you think about the native people who—we
talk about looking at history—have been historically unrepresented
[ph], taken advantage of, and forgotten for the most part. So I ask
that you deny this because it's not helping us, and we didn't ask for
it. Thank you. [CHEERS] [APPLAUSE]
02:46:49 Wrenn: I think we've got time for one more. The one lady who just spoke,
could you make sure that you see us afterwards so we could get
your name?
H. Goins: Hannah Goins.
Wrenn: Goins?
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H. Goins: G -O -I -N -S.
Wrenn: Thank you very much.
02:47:08 M: Yes, I'm Reverend , and I wanted to just finish
my comments. I apologize. The minister, some of us speak longer
than even at our congregation likes sometimes [ph]. I just want to
comment on the nativeI live in the Lumbee community. My
spouse is Lumbee. And the two of us have been working on many
social issues. I don't call myself an environmentalist. I call myself
a community practitioner. Just like a nurse practitioner or anyone
else who is constantly learning and practicing their calling, their
vocation that the great spirit has given us.
02:47:47 But, you know, no other pipeline, gas or oil pipeline in the
history of the United States has ever impacted as many Native
American people as this proposed pipeline. 30,000 native people
live along this route. There has been no discussion of it, no respect
for any of the tribes by these companies or the state to come in.
And it's not—and I think our county manager was here maybe.
M: He's already left.
M: I had to speak before a county manager last night, our county
commissioners whom I've worked with for 40 years in private -
public partnership. And every major environmental proposal that's
come before our region, not just our county—in southeastern
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we've had many [ph] we always work together,
and we had public hearings.
02:48:43 When the ACP came, because of the power that they had
all this was done behind the scenes. And until the newspaper
published it Sunday, we didn't know that the condition use permit
was on the agenda for the meeting. And the commissioners never
held any public hearing about it. The tribes have not held.
They're intimidated too, frankly. And so as someone said—Nick
said earlier, this is the first meeting in three years where we as the
public have been able to listen to each other. FERC can go into the
private room with a recorder. When they had their
they talk about three years of coming to our communities for
meetings. All those meetings they meet one-on-one with you.
And it's a power dynamic.
02:49:33 You know, you've got an expert corporate person or a
lawyer talking to a grassroots citizen. That is not a respectful,
equal relationship. So this is the first meeting. So I want to thank
DEQ. I also want to say how are we ever going to move this state
to protect our quality of water? We know how we have to do it.
We have to get totally off fossil fuels. We know that. So what we
did as a state—and I'm so proud of this—and a country when they
wanted to build multistate regional, low-level radioactive waste
facilities—and North Carolina picked the lottery and we were
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accepted for that [ph]. All the groups got together across the state
and the religious groups, and we said, "You know, dumping it in
the ground is not the thing to do."
02:50:27 So we looked around the world. And in Europe they were
storing it above ground in monitored retrievable storage units at the
nuclear power plants, so that what we proposed. And that's what's
been done. And that's the best solution. Building a gas pipeline
will make us dependent on the worst form of fossil fuel for Eastern
North Carolina. It'd be better to build coal plants than to build this
pipeline because it directly impacts the water. When coal is
burned, it throws it off into the wind and it lands in the bottom of
our rivers, and only certain fish are impacted by it. This will
impact us more than all the coal plants ever build in the country.
And we're never ever going to end this dynamic. And the state
now has an opportunity to deny this pipeline, which is the best
incentive to get Duke power to quit lobbying our legislature
against renewable energy and start supporting it. [APPLAUSE]
02:51:29 You have in your hands the very incentive to protect the
water, which is your duty, and to finally help guide and direct
North Carolina to move to protect all the future water we have by
stopping this one pipeline. [APPLAUSE]
02:52:01 Wrenn: If you did not speak tonight but would like to submit written
comments, they will be accepted until 5:00 p.m. on August 19tH
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2017. Written comments should be submitted to the email address
or postal address found at the handout available at the registration
desk. Based on the public comments received and information
submitted in the application, I will make a recommendation to the
director of the Division of Water Resources for his consideration
making a final decision on whether to issue or deny this
application.
02:52:27 I would like to thank all of you for your attendance and
interest tonight. This hearing is adjourned.
F: Thank you.
F: Thank you.
F: Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
[OVERLAPPINGINDISCERNIBLE]
[END RECORDING]
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