HomeMy WebLinkAboutDraft September 2024 WQC Meeting Minutes
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NORTH CAROLINA ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT COMMISSION
WATER QUALITY COMMITTEE
September 11, 2024 Meeting Minutes
MEETING BRIEF
During the September 11, 2024 meeting of the North Carolina Environmental Management
Commission’s Water Quality Committee, the Committee:
• Heard a brief presentation about the July 1, 2023 – June 30, 2024 Annual Report on
Water Supply Watershed Protection, Universal Stormwater Management, and NPDES
MS4 Programs,
• Approved proceeding to the EMC with Amendments to Tar-Pamlico Wastewater
Discharge Requirements Rule 15A NCAC 02B .0733,
• Approved the motion that “The EMC Water Quality Committee does not accept nor
take any action related to the RIA benefits category human health benefits also cited
as human health in Table 20 or in Appendix F and the section entitled estimated
exposure to food containing PFAS in North Carolina until members of the EMC meet
with FDA and receive a written response that the information related to food in the
US and North Carolina is accurate,” and
• Directed DEQ to propose a draft rule and draft RIA to establish monitoring for every
industrial and municipal NPDES permit and require PFAS source reduction plans as
part of every industrial and SIU municipal pre-treatment program.
WQC MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE
Steve Keen, Chair EMC Chair John Solomon, Ex-Officio
Michael Ellison, Vice-Chair Joe Reardon
Tim Baumgartner Kevin Tweedy
Marion Deerhake Bill Yarborough
OTHERS IN ATTENDANCE
EMC Commissioner Yvonne Bailey
EMC Commissioner Charlie Carter
EMC Commissioner Christopher Duggan
Ellie Young, EMC Counsel
Sushma Masemore, DEQ Assistant Secretary
Richard Rogers, DWR Director
Julie Grzyb, DWR Deputy Director
Karen Higgins, DWR
Stephanie Bolyard, DEQ
Michael Lawyer, DWR
John Huisman, DWR
Adam Waters, Tar-Pamlico Basin Association
Executive Director
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TABLE OF ACRONYMS
CFR Code of Federal Regulations
CHPP Coastal Habitat Protection Plan
CWA Clean Water Act
DMS NC Division of Mitigation Services
DWR or Division NC Division of Water Resources
EPA United States Environmental Protection Agency
EMC or Commission NC Environmental Management Commission
MCL maximum contaminant level
NC North Carolina
NCAC North Carolina Administrative Code
NCGA North Carolina General Assembly
NCGS North Carolina General Statutes
NPDES National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System
OAH Office of Administrative Hearings
OSBM Office of State Budget and Management
POTW Publicly owned treatment works, a sewage treatment plant owned
and usually operated by a government agency.
PFAS per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances, a group of chemicals
RIA Regulatory Impact Analysis
RRC Rules Review Commission
SCM stormwater control measures
SIU significant industrial user
SNAP Stormwater Nitrogen and Phosphorus Tool
SOC Special (Court) Order by Consent
US United States
WQC or Committee NC EMC Water Quality Committee
WWTP wastewater treatment plant
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I. Preliminary Matters
1. Meeting called to order and notice provided of NCGS 138A-15 regarding conflict of
interest: Chair Keen called the WQC meeting to order at 2:00pm and inquired about any
known conflicts of interest. No conflicts were announced.
2. Approval of July 10, 2024 meeting minutes: The Committee approved the draft July
10, 2024 meeting minutes without discussion.
II. Items
1. Information - July 1, 2023 – June 30, 2024 Annual Report on Water Supply
Watershed Protection, Universal Stormwater Management, and NPDES MS4 Programs
(Michael Lawyer, DEMLR)
Michael Lawyer, DEMLR, began his presentation with an overview of the Water Supply
Watershed Protection Program (WSWPP). He also briefly discussed the Universal
Stormwater Management Program (USMP) and the NPDES MS4 Program. He noted that
the WQC members have received a copy of the Annual Report.
Commissioner Tweedy asked about the Watershed Coordinator position that is open.
Mr. Lawyer said it has been vacant for two months. He said he has conducted interviews
and made a selection and is awaiting HR approval to extend an offer.
2. Action - Request Approval to Proceed to the EMC with Amendments to Tar-Pamlico
Wastewater Discharge Requirements Rule 15A NCAC 02B .0733 (John Huisman, DWR)
John Huisman, DWR, began his presentation with an overview of the Tar-Pamlico
Nutrient Strategy Agreement (Agreement) that is currently in place with the Tar-Pamlico
Basin Association (TPBA), noting that the overall goal is a 30% decrease in nitrogen load
and no increase in phosphorous load relative to the 1991 baseline. He presented a map
of the basin showing the main wastewater dischargers.
He stated that DWR wants to turn the requirements of the Agreement into a rule for
several reasons. The Agreement is coming up for renewal in 2025, and DWR has been
under increased pressure to ensure that all protections that fit the definition of a rule
under the APA are in fact written into a rule.
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Mr. Huisman presented an overview of what the current rule requires, noting that it
only applies to new or expanding facilities. He said that the proposal is to take the
existing Agreement and put it directly into a rule. He said that the RIA indicates that
there will be no new costs or substantial economic impact, since the rule would be the
same as the Agreement currently in place. He provided a timeline of the process with
hopeful EMC adoption in May 2025.
Vice-Chair Ellison asked if the Pfiesteria outbreak was the original impetus for
agreement, and Mr. Huisman answered in the affirmative. He also asked if there any
projections for future output changes. Mr. Huisman said there haven’t been projections,
but that once the TPBA members hit 80% of their caps, they are required to do
evaluations and projections for improvements they can make.
Commissioner Tweedy asked how the nitrogen and phosphorous caps were established.
Mr. Huisman said they were established based on the modeling in the early 1990s that
was used to establish the TMDL and the 1991 discharge levels. He noted that there
hasn’t been additional modeling or updates since then.
Adam Waters, TPBA Executive Director, noted that the benefit of being a part of the
Association is that members aren’t required to meet their individual allocation unless
the Association as a whole is exceeding. Also, membership allows for resources
regarding support and experience, especially for the smaller members.
Commissioner Ellison moved to proceed to the full EMC with public notice and hearing
for the proposed amendments to 15A NCAC 02B .0733. Commissioner Deerhake
seconded the motion, and it passed without discussion.
3. Action: Continuing with PFAS Surface Water Quality Rules Development
Process...
Chair Keen began this item by providing a brief procedural history. DWR Director Rogers
gave an overview of the developments of PFAS surface water quality standards, noting
that DEQ staff has been working for more than two years on this process.
Director Rogers began his presentation with an overview of the comments and
questions DEQ received from the WQC and EMC Chair during the July 10 meeting and in
writing in August. He noted that the three main categories of comments were regarding
implementation, water quality standards, and benefits categories. He asked that the
WQC reconsider its request to remove some benefits from the RIA that these rules
would provide, since the benefits are valid, justified, and quantifiable. He also noted
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that the OSBM-approved RIA and the rules are both drafts and that DWR is proposing to
further revise the RIA after public comments are received and considered.
Commissioner Baumgartner, who Chair Keen designated as the questions and
comments manager on behalf of the WQC, noted that the WQC has been able to review
the RIA only since June. He said the WQC has received several different versions of the
RIA and it would be helpful to have a cover sheet noting the version. DWR Director
Rogers noted that the draft OSBM-approved RIA is included as attachment D. He also
clarified that all these documents are drafts until they go through the public hearing
process and are officially approved by the EMC. He also said there have been no
revisions to the draft since DWR received the Committee’s comments and questions.
DWR staff, WQC members, and EMC Chair Solomon discussed the benefits this rule
would provide to surface waters and what specific benefits surface water provides
(drinking water, swimming, and fishing).
Commissioner Reardon asked if consuming food was a significant source of human
exposure to PFAS, and Stephanie Bolyard, DEQ, answered in the affirmative. He asked if
we have overstated the claim that 22% of PFAS exposure comes from food, citing some
FDA research that showed a 3% exposure rate. Ms. Bolyard further explained her
reasoning and methodology, noting that DEQ is talking about a 20% exposure to
normalize on a mass basis for a health purpose.
Commissioner Reardon asked about the specific levels of PFAS that are being found on
farms, noting that USDA and FDA haven’t established investigatory levels and that not
all PFAS are the same. He stated that we should have a national investigative level
before we fully test every farm in America. Ms. Bolyard cited some real-world examples
of situations where farms that contained PFAS were able to change what they did based
on some investigation to be able to continue selling agricultural products. Several WQC
Commissioners also expressed concern about a report that a farmer was “unable” to sell
his food because it was contaminated with PFAS. They noted that the farmer chose not
to sell the food and that he could have sold the food legally had he chose to. They were
also concerned that DEQ was making assertions without sufficient proof about the
amount of food that North Carolinians ingest that are impacted by PFAS in surface
water. Specifically, they cited the statement that “Approximately 25% of the food North
Carolinians ingest was projected to be food impacted by PFAS through surface water.”
DEQ Assistant Secretary Sushma Masemore explained that 86% of the water used in
agricultural practices, including irrigation and raising animals, is extracted from surface
waters. So, when surface waters are contaminated with PFAS, those PFAS are being
consumed by animals and crops. So, she said, the translation is occurring to answer the
question of how do you account for that avoided cost to that exposure.
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Commissioner Deerhake expressed concern that this meeting was too short to address
the WQC members’ questions and that if it is ended at 4, then no progress will be made.
Chair Keen said that the RIA is ultimately an EMC product, not a DEQ product, and that
the RIA needs to be properly vetted prior to arrival. Commissioner Deerhake disagreed,
citing prior precedent, and noted that the time to consider these comments is after the
public comment process, not before. She stated her belief that certain EMC members
are overreaching the EMC’s duty and leaving the public with the impression that they
are controlling the RIA process to achieve the outcome that they and some stakeholders
desire rather than the outcome that an objective financial analysis should produce. She
also said that she emailed her positive comments about the RIA to Chair Keen on August
6 but that those were not included in the comments the WQC send to DWR.
Commissioner Reardon made the following motion:
The EMC Water Quality Committee does not accept nor take any action
related to the RIA benefits category human health benefits also cited as
human health in Table 20 or in Appendix F and the section entitled
estimated exposure to food containing PFAS in North Carolina until
members of the EMC meet with FDA and receive a written response that
the information related to food in the US and North Carolina is accurate.
Commissioner Baumgartner seconded that motion. Vice-Chair Ellison said its important
to get the RIA right before it goes to public comment. Commissioner Deerhake said that
outside parties are influencing the content of the RIA and communicating with the EMC
even though we have not entered the public comment phase. Commissioner
Baumgartner rejected the assertion that the EMC is being guided by people on the
outside.
Commissioner Tweedy questioned the possibility of establishing a WQC working group
outside of these meetings since these discussions take a long time and it would be years
before action is taken at the current pace. Chair Keen stated that he would not establish
such a group. Commissioner Reardon rejected the assertion that any outside party
influenced his research or thinking. Vice-Chair Ellison said he’s received around 200
phone calls and emails from outside people urging rapid action on PFAS based on these
documents. He also said his questions are his own and that the RIA is “severely flawed”
and is in many cases “predicated on scientific fallacies.”
The motion carried after a vote.
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A discussion followed where Vice-Chair Ellison and EMC Chair Solomon indicated
concern that DEQ’s responses about wells didn’t reference North Carolina activities
enough. Stephanie Bolyard, DEQ, responded, noting that scientific principles apply the
same in North Carolina as elsewhere. There was continued discussion about wells with
Vice Chair Ellison expressing concerns with DEQ’s scientific reasoning and Ms. Bolyard
explaining that the RIA was DEQ’s best effort at estimating benefits. A further discussion
ensued about the interaction between ground and surface water, property values, and
the sufficiency of DEQ’s research. WQC members also stated that they’d like to get pass
this impasse between the Department and WQC.
EMC Chair Solomon and other WQC members discussed several alternatives on how the
EMC can proceed without endless delays, with EMC Chair Solomon stating that source
protection plans are the best way to proceed. DWR Deputy Director Julie Grzyb stated
that DWR could do a minimization-type plan but DWR would need measurable value
that they’re going to a goal. She said you can’t assess costs unless you have a
measurable goal and defined timeframes.
Commissioner Baumgartner moved that DEQ propose a draft rule and draft RIA to
establish monitoring for every industrial and municipal NPDES permit and require PFAS
source reduction plans as part of every industrial and SIU municipal pre-treatment
program. Vice-Chair Ellison seconded the motion, and a discussion followed. DEQ
Assistant Secretary Sushma Masemore said that the Department will need specific
guidance to require source reduction and associated plans and some direction to
produce a credible RIA and rule text.
The motion carried unanimously.
III. Director’s Remarks
DWR Director Richard Rogers stated that DWR is working on the narrative standard
report, and that comments have been received. He said that the triennial review is still a
work in progress and that it was delayed a bit awaiting a report from the Collaboratory
to be included in the RIA.
IV. Conclusion
The meeting adjourned at approximately 5pm with Chair Keen thanking everyone for
their work and thanking members of the public who viewed the meeting.