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The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://youtu.be/TMUnBSzU9Lw?si=nYqKRNf7A4GCgPA1
ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT COMMISSION
GROUNDWATER AND WASTE MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE
MEETING SUMMARY
May 8, 2024
Joe Reardon, Chair Presiding
The Groundwater and Waste Management Committee (GWWMC) of the North
Carolina Environmental Management Commission (EMC) addressed the following
at its May 8, 2024, meeting:
GWWMC Members in Attendance:
Mr. Joe Reardon, Chair Mr. Tim Baumgartner, Vice-Chair
Mr. Steve Keen Dr. Jaqueline MacDonald Gibson
Dr. H. Kim Lyerly Mr. Bill Yarborough
Ms. Yvonne Bailey
Other Commissioners in Attendance:
Ms. Elizabeth (Jill) Weese Ms. Marion Deerhake
Mr. Chris Duggan Mr. Charles (Charlie) Carter
Ms. Robin W. Smith Mr. John (JD) Solomon (EMC Chair)
Others Present:
Ms. Sarah Zambon, EMC Counsel
I. Preliminary Matters:
1. In accordance with North Carolina General Statute § 138A-15, Chair
Reardon asked if any GWWMC member knew of any known conflict of
interest or appearance of conflict with respect to any item on the May 8,
2024, GWWMC agenda. None of the members stated there was a conflict.
2. Vice-Chair Baumgartner made a motion to approve the March 13, 2024,
GWWMC meeting minutes. Commissioner Keen seconded the motion.
The vote taken was unanimous and the minutes from the March meeting
were approved.
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 2 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
After the approval of the meeting minutes, Chair Reardon noted the letter
from Secretary Biser of DEQ, that was sent to Chair Solomon of the EMC,
regarding proposed PFAS standards. Chair Reardon recognized Vice Chair
Baumgartner for comments regarding the proposed amendments to 15A
NCAC 02L for PFAS being an informational item versus an action item.
Vice Chair Baumgartner stated the Chair and Vice-Chair of this Committee
were extremely disappointed that DEQ and its leadership chose not to fully
communicate with this Committee, instead choosing to grandstand when
it does not get its way. DWM scheduled a meeting with the Chair and Vice
Chair of this Committee to review the agenda at 3:00 p.m. on Friday, April
19, 2024. In the meeting from DWM were Director Scott and Jessica
Montie, Chair Reardon, and Vice Chair Baumgartner. As we reviewed the
draft agenda, it was noted by DWM that 15A NCAC 02L .0202 fiscal analysis
would not be ready for review by the Committee for the May 8 meeting.
The Committee Chairs agreed that without a fiscal analysis to review, the
discussion of the 02L PFAS Rule could remain an information item. No one
from DEQ, its staff nor leadership, engaged with either Chair Reardon or
Vice Chair Baumgartner to see if there could be some path forward and a
compromise for the 2L PFAS rule request to remain as an action item. DEQ
chose to grandstand, issuing public statements rather than working
through issues with the EMC and its Committee. The lack of respect by
DEQ for this Commission’s members is evident in its lack of
communication and its disregard for providing documents for EMC review
in a timely manner. This Committee and Commission deserve the right to
review a full package in order to make decisions to move rules through the
process. The North Carolina Administrative Procedures Act (General
Statute 150B) requires the development and approval of a fiscal note for
rulemaking to proceed. Yet DEQ would not even share a draft of the
Regulatory Impact Analysis with this Committee. Secretary Biser issued a
letter on May 1, 2024 (and subsequent press release) leveraging
accusations at this Committee’s Chair and Vice Chair. The Secretary stated,
“staff have presented at the last three meetings on these proposed
standards”. However, presentations do not mean completeness of
submittal. In the November 2023 meeting minutes, for the full
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 3 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
Commission, the minutes state “Ms. Montie is helping coordinate the
Regulatory Impact Analysis for the 02L Groundwater Standards.” If in fact,
DWM was working on the fiscal note 6 months ago, where is at least a
draft? During all of DEQ’s grandstanding, DEQ did not provide this
Committee with a complete set of documents two weeks prior to the
meeting which is the current EMC policy. In fact, documents for this
Committee were not posted in full until late last Friday, May 3, 2024. Even
yesterday, DWM was modifying documents for this Committee’s agenda.
The fiscal analysis for 2L PFAS Rule has NOT been posted for EMC review
as of today. DEQ has never provided a draft for consideration to move this
Rule proposal forward. If the Department was so inclined for the 2L PFAS
Rule to be heard as an action item at this meeting, why didn’t they further
discuss concerns with the Committee Chair and Vice Chair. Let’s be clear,
this Committee nor the EMC will be developing any standards based on
costs. However, a fiscal analysis is needed in full to ensure that as these
Rules go through public hearing in a manner that the public can
understand and fully understand implications of the new Rule. That
includes Rule application and associated cost implications for
implementation. This persistent disregard for this Committee stops today.
All documents for any requests before this Committee will be provided to
this Committee no later than two weeks prior to the scheduled meeting
date or that item will be removed from the agenda. Additionally, if there
is further debate concerning items to be considered by this Committee,
DEQ Leadership should engage the Chair and Vice Chair of this Committee
prior to this two-week deadline. The public deserves a solid Rule making
process that complies fully with APA, that is completely reviewed, and
conforms with other statutes and rules. This Commission cannot do that
if DEQ intends to work against us, withholding documents, and
grandstanding instead of engaging.
Chair Reardon stated that he is disappointed that the Secretary decided
to make this a public issue without having any additional conversations
with the Chair and Vice Chair of this Committee. This is disturbing and not
in keeping with the character of those in a leadership position. Removal
of PFAS discussion as an action item was to allow this Committee to have
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 4 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
all materials at one time before making a decision. Recent letters
submitted to this Committee asking for more time and requesting more
thorough discussion were not reviewed nor had conversations occurred
with those individuals prior to this meeting. The decision to remove this
from the agenda as an action item was solely based upon the need to have
full packets of information for the Committee to consider. All the pieces
coming out of Committee need to be provided as one package going to the
full EMC. Chair Reardon and Vice Chair Baumgartner requested that all
information be provided to the Committee two weeks prior to the meeting
and that Chair Reardon has not received hard copies requested in a timely
manner in advance of the meeting. DEQ staff can do better than this.
What is entrusted to this Committee and the responsibility entrusted to
the EMC deserves that we should have all the materials we need to make
a good decision for the benefit of the people of this state. Chair Reardon
served over the Food Safety Program for 43 years and that care for the
citizens of this State did not stop by beginning to serve on this Commission.
In fact, that experience is the background on how he sees things.
Commissioner Yarborough offered additional comments regarding the
letter submitted by DEQ. Commissioner Yarborough is totally
disappointed that a Secretary would make allegations such as this. He has
known Chair Reardon for over 40 years and Chair Reardon has never
backed down from protecting public safety. These attacks on Chair
Reardon are unfathomable.
II. Action Items
1. Request Approval to Proceed to the Environmental Management
Commission with the 2024 Periodic Review of 15A NCAC 02S – Rules and
Criteria for the Administration of the Dry-Cleaning Solvent Cleanup
Fund
(DWM) Jessica Montie
Jessica Montie, with the Division of Waste Management (DWM),
presented a request to proceed to the EMC with the 2024 Periodic Review
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 5 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
of 15A NCAC 02S. - Rules and Criteria for the Administration of the Dry-
Cleaning Solvent Cleanup Fund. Ms. Montie gave an overview of the
periodic rule review process and the DWM rules that will be reviewed by
the Committee. She discussed the rules under review and their proposed
determinations and explained the rationale for designation of two of the
rules as unnecessary. She also indicated that DWM had solicited
stakeholder feedback on these designations and gave an outline of the
expected rule review timeline.
Following the presentation, Commissioner Keen asked about 1,4-dioxane
and GenX, and whether 1,4-dioxane would be reviewed or considered,
moving forward, with dry-cleaning solvents. Delonda Alexander, the
DWM Superfund Special Remediation Branch Head, stated that the
program had not been analyzing for 1,4-dioxane as it has not shown up
as a constituent of concern at dry-cleaners to date. Commissioner Keen
asked if waste from dry cleaner sites should be evaluated for 1,4-dioxane.
Ms. Alexander stated that all waste from the clean-up of dry-cleaning
solvents is handled as hazardous waste and sent to a hazardous waste
facility, which is the most protective, and therefore there is no need to
also evaluate the waste for hazardous waste characteristics or other
chemicals. Commissioner Keen asked if 1,4-dioxane has been designated
as a toxic or hazardous waste.
Director Michael Scott explained, with regard to PFAS, at the time of the
meeting PFAS has not been designated as a hazardous waste and could
be disposed of as non-hazardous waste, but that DWM would need to
follow up on the status of 1,4-dioxane. Ms. Alexander reiterated that the
dry-cleaning program is not looking for any particular chemicals or
particular levels of chemicals for waste characterization, they just take
the most conservative approach, assume the waste containing solvent is
hazardous, and handle it as hazardous waste. If 1,4-dioxane is present, it
is already being disposed of as hazardous waste.
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 6 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
Adam Ulishney, Deputy Director with DWM, also stated that the State has
groundwater and soil standards for 1,4-dioxane, and all hazardous waste
permitted facilities are required to analyze for 1,4-dioxane in their
groundwater monitoring networks. Commissioner Keen noted that the
State is trying to identify sources of 1,4-dioxane, including any waste
management facilities, and if it is not analyzed at a facility, maybe it
should be for the purpose of identifying the facility as a source of 1,4-
dioxane.
Commissioner Bailey asked for confirmation that removing the two rules
designated as unnecessary would reduce the burden on the regulated
community by eliminating the need for the remedial action plan. Ms.
Alexander stated that the rule is not necessary because the plan
information can be requested or obtained in a risk management plan, so
the rule is redundant, but yes, it could potentially also reduce the burden
on the regulated community if it prevents them from having to submit
another plan with the same information. Commissioner Bailey also asked
for confirmation that the other rule designation of unnecessary was also
because the rule was redundant, and removing the rule was not relaxing
any requirements. Ms. Alexander confirmed this, and stated program
participation is voluntary and it is in the best interest of the applicant to
provide it, so a rule is not necessary to allow the Department to request
the information.
Commissioner Deerhake stated that when the EPA had originally listed
dry-cleaning solvents, they may have determined at the time that 1,4-
dioxane was not present in the solvent. Commissioner Keen said he
wants to make sure that this is still true with the methodology and
technology that is available today.
Following the discussion Commissioner Bailey made a motion to approve
the request to proceed to the EMC with the 2024 Periodic Review of 15A
NCAC 02S – Rules and Criteria for the Administration of the Dry-Cleaning
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 7 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
Solvent Cleanup Fund. Commissioner Keen seconded the motion. A vote
was taken and the motion passed unanimously.
II. Information Items
1. Coal Ash Management Rulemaking Update
(DWM) Jason Watkins
Jason Watkins, Solid Waste Section Chief, provided an update on recent
legislation (SL 2023-138) and the status of rulemaking for coal ash
management surface impoundments and landfills. He indicated that rules
would be necessary if we are attempting to obtain state program permit
approval for federal requirements. He gave a status on the State’s efforts
on the clean-up and excavation of impoundments and processing of
residuals into beneficial product. He went over the potential steps and
timeline for State permit program approval and a proposed timeline for
the State rulemaking process, if needed.
Following the presentation, Vice Chair Baumgartner asked if any coal-
fired plants are operating now in the state. Mr. Watkins confirmed that
there are still operational facilities in the State. Chair Reardon asked how
many there are. Mr. Watkins indicated that he did not have that
information at the time.
(Note, after the meeting, Mr. Watkins provided the following information
in response to the question above: Any coal ash currently being generated
is required by the NC Coal Ash Management Act to be dry ash, which is
disposed of in a lined sanitary landfill. The Duke Energy 2023 Carolinas
Resource Plan submitted August 2023 to the NC Utilities Commission,
which includes the number of operating energy plants, retirement
forecasts, etc. (see the Chapter 3 Portfolio, Page 6), can be accessed at
this link:
https://starw1.ncuc.gov/NCUC/PSC/PSCDocumentDetailsPageNCUC.asp
x?DocumentId=70c6dc5c-502d-4a62-9743-2e3bcec044cc&Class=Filing.)
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 8 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
2. PFAS Groundwater Quality Standards Rulemaking Update – Rule
Amendment
(DWR) Bridget Shelton
Bridget Shelton with the Division of Water Resources presented an
overview of the proposed rule amendment to 15A NCAC 02L .0202 to add
specific groundwater standards for eight PFAS. Ms. Shelton described the
differences between standards for drinking water, groundwater, and
surface water standards, including their purposes and how they are
applied. She also explained why it is important to protect the best usage
of groundwater as a source of drinking water, that groundwater quality is
not regulated at the federal level, and how groundwater standards are
used by DEQ for site-clean-ups, risk assessments, and health evaluations.
She highlighted some of the pertinent language in the rule regarding the
existing requirements, including how standards are developed and
calculated. She also discussed why standards for PFAS are being proposed
and gave some background on the recent EPA announcement
establishing drinking water standards for six PFAS. She also gave some
background on prior information items presented to the GWWMC and
EMC on this topic. She provided the proposed standards for eight PFAS
and the proposed rulemaking timeline.
There was some discussion following the presentation, and the following
questions required follow-up after the meeting (Note, the entire
discussion can be accessed in the meeting recording link at the bottom of
the page, beginning at timestamp 1:05:00):
Chair Reardon asked what the other states are doing to regulate PFAS in
groundwater.
Commissioner Keen asked what the traditional testing methods are for
the PQL for legacy PFAS. He also asked where the manufacturers of PFAS
are, and what test method they will be using.
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 9 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
Commissioner Yarborough asked what the alternatives to PFAS in
manufacturing are, if PFAS are no longer able to be used.
3. PFAS Groundwater Quality Standard Rulemaking Update – Regulatory
Impact Analysis
(DWM) Jessica Montie
Jessica Montie provided an overview of the regulatory impact analysis
(RIA) being prepared for the proposed rule amendment to 15A NCAC 02L
.0202 to add specific groundwater standards for eight PFAS. Ms. Montie
discussed the baseline for the analysis begin the existing regulations and
the PQL. She noted which programs in DEQ comply with the existing
requirements for groundwater quality in 15A NCAC 02L, and how the plan
and timeline to address PFAS under existing rules will be used in the
analysis. Ms. Montie described the cost and benefit analysis approach,
and summarized the draft conclusions from the analysis, both
quantitative and qualitative. She also noted that the analysis is pending
approval/certification from the Office of State Budget and Management
at the time of the meeting.
There was some discussion following the presentation, and the following
question required follow-up after the meeting (Note, the entire discussion
can be accessed in the meeting recording link at the bottom of the page,
beginning at timestamp 1:39:00):
Commissioner Keen asked what the Department’s compliance and
enforcement strategy is, and what the burden on the State is to
implement PFAS groundwater and surface water quality standards.
Following the discussion, Chair Reardon and Vice Chair Baumgartner
emphasized the need for the Committee to be provided with all
documentation necessary to take action on agenda items, including the
regulatory impact analysis, in future meetings.
IV. Upcoming Items
GWWMC Meeting Summary Draft Date: June 3, 2024
May 8, 2024 Approval Date: TBD
Page 10 of 10
The recording of the May 8, 2024, GWWMC meeting can be accessed at this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUnBSzU9Lw
• May 9, 2024, EMC Meeting Agenda Items
o Information Item – US EPA CERCLA PFAS (PFOA and PFOS)
Update
• Future Committee Meetings:
Upcoming Agenda Items for the GWWMC expected July 2024
(subject to change)
o PFAS Groundwater Quality Standards Rulemaking
V. Directors’ Remarks
DWM Division Director, Michael Scott, expressed his appreciation for
all the diligent work done by colleagues to put together the proposed
PFAS rules. He confirmed the Committee’s request regarding the fiscal
note and noted that, as a state, North Carolina is moving from finding
and assessing PFAS to the members of the public asking, “What level
do we clean up to? What’s the target?” Mr. Scott acknowledged the
importance of such questions and stated that the Division looks
forward to furthering that conversation with the Committee.
DWR Director Richard Rogers made no additional comments/closing
remarks.
VI. Closing Remarks
With no further remarks, Chair Reardon adjourned the meeting.