RE_ Bridge 5 Pine Swamp Rd_final

Wanucha, Dave
From: Hining, Kevin J
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 2:07 PM
To: Wanucha, Dave
Subject: RE: Bridge 5 Pine Swamp Rd -final
That might be the way to go, since it would allow some flexibility
Kevin Hining
Division 11 Environmental Supervisor
NC Department of Transportation
828-386-7202 cell
[e-mail]
From: Wanucha, Dave <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 1:52 PM
To: Hining, Kevin J <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bridge 5 Pine Swamp Rd
One way around that is to use a statement having to do with "...at the discretion of site
engineer". I have seen that statement used for back -filling culverts in terms of type of
material to use.
Dave Wanucha
Environmental Specialist 11
Transportation Permitting Branch for NCDOT Divisions 9 and 11
Division of Water Resources, Department of Environmental Quality
Office/Cell: [phone]
[e-mail]
�
, �: D_ E NORTH CAROLINA 7.AM Q
Department of Environmental Quality
Email correspondence to and from this address is subject to the North
Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
From: Hining, Kevin J <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 1:43 PM
To: Wanucha, Dave <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bridge 5 Pine Swamp Rd

No problem Dave, and sorry for not doing that for this one. Definitely let me know if you hear of issues from others
about not using the geotextile. We can definitely require it in the future.
Some of our permit drawings show it, and some don't and instead specify keying -in. I often gloss over that part when
putting the applications together, but I should probably do better at checking with the project manager/engineer to see
if they have a preference before finalizing the permit drawings. And, then we can just stick to however we decide to
show it in the permit drawings and application.
Thanks again,
Kevin
Kevin Hining
Division 11 Environmental Supervisor
NC Department of Transportation
828-386-7202 cell
[e-mail]
From: Wanucha, Dave <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 1:37 PM
To: Hining, Kevin J <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bridge 5 Pine Swamp Rd
Yes, the operator was pressing rip rap into the slope. A piece got a way, but he was able to
pluck it out of the stream no problem.
Your justification sounds reasonable. May be a good idea to monitor it following a storm or
two to determine if there is any huge soil losses or riprap slippage.
I have seen many projects, but this is the first time I have come across this scenario -whether
to use geotextile or not on a steep slope --good case history to share with my team.
As far as plan revisions, yes, in this instance, it wouldn't hurt to send an email for notification
purposes since the revision deviated from original plans in such a way that may impact surface
waters —so that we are on the same page.
Have a good holiday weekend.
Dave W.
Dave Wanucha
Environmental Specialist 11
Transportation Permitting Branch for NCDOT Divisions 9 and 11
Division of Water Resources, Department of Environmental Quality
Office/Cell: [phone]
[e-mail]

, �: D_ E �
NORTH CAROLINA 7.0m Q
Department of Environmental Quality
Email correspondence to and from this address is subject to the North
Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
From: Hining, Kevin J <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 1:17 PM
To: Wanucha, Dave <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bridge 5 Pine Swamp Rd
Hey Dave,
You are correct— the plans showed geotextile on that page, and now that I'm thinking about it, we probably should have
told you about our change first, to make sure it was ok. As a general rule, I always tell our staff that we have to either
place rip rap on geotextile, or key it into the bank. On page 5 of the permit drawings I attached above, it shows the
banks at the old bridge being graded back to a 1.5:1 slope, instead of the more typical 2:1 slope. I didn't catch this
during the permit drawing review stage, but, since this resulted in a pretty steep grade, they decided to key the rock
in. From talking to our contractors and bridge maintenance staff, the geotextile can sometimes create a bond -breaker
and almost create a slip and slide effect so that the rock is more likely to move, especially on steeper slopes. Also,
without the geotextile, I've hoped vegetation might have an easier time taking root and help hold the rip rap in place
over time. But, I suppose us keying the rock in could also be seen as a plan change, so I probably should have let you
know. I'm happy to do that in the future - I wasn't sure if we had the option to place on geotextile or key -in, but I'm
happy to check with you first regardless, and let you know anytime we plan on changing that in case there is an issue. I
don't know that I've ever asked, but definitely let me know if you have a preference. You have seen way more of these
projects than I have.
I did follow up with Tim a few minutes ago, and he said the trackhoe operator pressed/pushed in the rock while placing
it. I was also worried about the colored/dirtier looking rock at the bottom of the bank in your photos, but Tim told me
that was the existing rip rap that was there when they removed the old bridge. He said they moved it around a little to
create a bench, and then keyed the new rock in above that. I always tell them that they can create a dewatering dike
when applying rip rap to the bank, or carefully place the first load of rock at the bottom (either existing rip rap or new
rip rap), and let that serve as the dike — but instead of it being temporary, they leave it in. I actually like that option
since sometimes a temporary dike can stir instream sediments up twice — once when you place it and then again when
you remove it. Hope that makes sense. And, hope the rest of the project looked ok! I was out there last week, but
haven't been by this week.
Hope you have a great Memorial Day weekend - we had planned on camping near Floyd Virginia, but decided it was
going to be too wet....
Thanks,
Kevi n
Kevin Hining
Division 11 Environmental Supervisor

NC Department of Transportation
828-386-7202 cell
[e-mail]
From: Wanucha, Dave <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 12:20 PM
To: Hining, Kevin J <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bridge 5 Pine Swamp Rd
« File: stream bank armoring.jpg >> « File: Plansheet.JPG >>
« File: armoring stream bank.jpg >>
Hi Kevin,
I visited the above bridge project yesterday. I talked with Tim Ashley with AMT. Workers
were placing riprap on the banks at the old bridge location, but I did not see geotextile under
the riprap for bank stabilization (Site 1-pictures attached). I believe that the plans show that
geotextile under the riprap. Am I interpreting that correctly?
Dave W.
Dave Wanucha
Environmental Specialist 11
Transportation Permitting Branch for NCDOT Divisions 9 and 11
Division of Water Resources, Department of Environmental Quality
Office/Cell: [phone]
[e-mail]
<< OLE Object: Picture (Device Independent Bitmap) >>
Email correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties by an authorized
state official.
Email correspondence to and from this sender is subject to the N.C. Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
4