20120935 Ver 1_More Info Received_20121210

Carrillo, Sonia (3 /LA ✓15u/rC((
From Herndon, Mason ( 2
Sent Monday, December 10, 2012 11 47 AM
To Carrillo, Sonia
Subject FW R -3432 Application
Attachments R- 3432_hyd_prm_site 5 pdf
Sonia, attached is additional information provided by DOT for R -3432 (DWQ Project 20120935)
Thanks'
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon @ncdenr gov
Phone [phone]
E mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
From Evans, Rachel C
Sent Friday, November 30, 2012 2 46 PM
To Herndon, Mason
Cc, Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Atkinson, Paul, Blackburn, Barney R
Subject: RE R -3432 Application
Mason,
The plans and permit drawings have been updated We are using log sills and streambank reforestation to achieve and
maintain stability along the existing and relocated channel Attached is a pdf of the updated permit drawings for site 5,
associated details, and updated impact summary sheet Note that the streambank reforestation detail will be finalized
by roadside environmental with specific plants, etc
Please let me know if you have any questions Thank you'
Rachel C Evans, P E
Design Engineer
North Carolina Department of Transportation Hydraulics Unit
1590 Mall Service Center
Raleigh NC 27699 -1590
Telephone 919 - 707 -6719 (Direct)
Telephone 919 - 707 -6700 (Main)
Fax 919 - 250 -4108
From- Atkinson, Paul
Sent Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2 38 PM
To: Herndon, Mason
Cc Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject. RE R -3432 Application

OK, we will make sure we get it to you by Monday Thanks
Paul Atkinson, PE
Project Manager, TIP East
NCDOT Hydraulics Unit
Phone [phone] Fox (919)250 -4108
Mail 1590 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699 1590
Delivery 1020 Birch Ridge Dr , Raleigh, NC 27610
From. Herndon, Mason
Sent. Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2 32 PM
To Atkinson, Paul
Cc: Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver(a)usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject RE R -3432 Application
Thanks for the update and assistance Paul If I get the revisions by the close of business on Monday, I won't have to
issue a hold letter on the application
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon@ncdenr sov
Phone [phone]
E -mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
From Atkinson, Paul
Sent Tuesday, November 27, 2012 2 13 PM
To: Herndon, Mason
Cc Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver(!a)usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject RE R -3432 Application
Mason,
We are evaluating whether we can permanently stabilize the banks with a more suitable material Rachel and most of
my staff are in training today through Thursday, but it shouldn't take more than a couple days to make revisions once
she returns Thanks
Paul Atkinson, PE
Project Manager, TIP East
NCDOT Hydraulics Unit
Phone [phone] Fax [phone]
Mail 1590 Mail Service Center, Raleigh NC 27699 1590
Delivery 1020 Birch Ridge Dr, Raleigh, NC 27610
From. Herndon, Mason
Sent* Monday, November 26, 2012 12 15 PM
To: Atkinson, Paul
Cc Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject, RE R -3432 Application
N

Paul, the height above the bottom of the channel is not a mayor Issue has far as Impacts go, because the Impact Is the rip
rap placed below the OHM My main question Is there anything that can be done to eliminate all or part of the rip rap
proposed on the stream bank below the OHM Would prefer a softer vegetative bank Are velocities really so high that
this is not feasible?
When can you send a revised Impact summary sheet and 56 drawing?
Thanks for your cooperation & assistance)
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon @ncdenr gov
Phone [phone]
E mad correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
From Atkinson, Paul
Sent Wednesday, November 21, 2012 12 19 PM
To. Herndon, Mason
Cc Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E ShaverO)usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject RE R -3432 Application
Mason,
In looking back over the design, I feel we can reduce the bank stabilization rip rap on the channel realignment another
0 5' for a total height of 15' above the bottom of the channel This would represent a 25% decrease In rip rap over the
design we had last forwarded to you Please let me know if you have any questions Thanks
Paul Atkinson, PE
Project Manager, TIP East
NCDOT Hydraulics Unit
Phone [phone] Fax [phone]
Mail 1590 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699 1590
Delivery 1020 Birch Ridge Dr, Raleigh, NC 27610
From. Atkinson, Paul
Sent Tuesday, November 20, 2012 3 56 PM
To- Herndon, Mason
Cc. Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver(ausace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject: RE R -3432 Application
Mason,
Regarding Detail Q, please note that It Is not to scale The short stretch of channel relocation is at approximately the
same ground elevation of the existing stream Although the detail does not specifically call for a floodplain bench, the
3 1 side slopes will provide more open area than the existing incised channel during storm flooding Our computed flow
depth for the 10yr storm is less than 15', so It becomes difficult to construct a floodplain bench low enough to be
effective without Inadvertently widening the channel There is also the concern of potentially bypassing and
undermining the log sills with such a low bench
Regarding bank stabilization, even with the addition of the log sills, we are still getting velocities that exceed our limit for
grass -lined channels We have, however, minimized the bank stabilization to extend only 1' above the normal water

surface While not optimum, it is still an Improvement over the existing channel which is actively headcutting with
eroded banks Our Intent is to stabilize the channel to prevent more of it eroding
Regarding the rip rap pad at the outlet of the pipe, we will make the change to replace it with rip rap stabilization keyed
in on the banks and eliminate rip rap in the bed as you have requested
I hope I have adequately answered your questions If I have missed something or if you need more information, please
do not hesitate to contact me Thanks
Paul Atkinson, PE
Project Manager, TIP East
NCDOT Hydraulics Unit
Phone [phone] Fax [phone]
Mad 1590 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699 1590
Delivery 1020 Birch Ridge Dr Raleigh, NC 27610
From: Herndon, Mason
Sent Monday, November 19, 2012 2 04 PM
To: Atkinson, Paul
Cc: Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver(a)usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject: RE R -3432 Application
Paul,
Thanks for the revised drawings I have a couple of questions
• Whys does Detail Q basically show a cross section of a typical base ditch instead of a natural stream channel
with floodplain benches?
• If the channel cross section was modified to a natural stream cross section with earthen flood plain benches
would rip rap bank stabilization still be required? At a minimum it should eliminate armoring of the stream
bank
• Can Enlargement B be modified to eliminate rip rap in the channel downstream of the culvert?
Thanks'
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon @ncdenr gov
Phone [phone]
E mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
From Atkinson, Paul
Sent Friday, November 16, 2012 4 02 PM
To Herndon, Mason
Cc Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject, RE R -3432 Application
Mason,
Attached please find our revised design per our conversation We have eliminated rip rap in the bed and have revised
the design to utilize several log sills as grade control structures rather than the single rock cross vane from the previous
design We examined using log cross vanes but due to the small size of the channel we feel that the log sills are better
suited to the site We have Included a copy of the detail as well as the revised detail showing bank stabilization

If you have any questions please to do hesitate to contact me Thanks
Paul Atkinson, PE
Project Manager, TIP East
NCDOT Hydraulics Unit
Phone [phone] Fox (919)250 -4108
Moil 1590 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699 1590
Delivery 1020 Birch Ridge Dr , Raleigh, NC 27610
From: Herndon, Mason
Sent Monday, November 05, 2012 11 12 AM
To Stanton, Tyler P
Cc- Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C, Atkinson, Paul
Subject, RE R -3432 Application
Importance: High
Tyler & Rachel,
Thank you for addressing DWQ's questions Based on the explanations you provided we have no further comments on
Sites 2 and 3, however we still have concerns with DOT's proposal for Site 5 The permanent stream impacts for this
project have gone from "no impacts" in the FONSI, to 277 If (which included slope stake plus 10 ft offset) after the
revised delineation (e -mail 7/26/11)and now to 366 If in the application The latest increase in impacts appears to be a
result of the proposed channel work at Site 5 DWQ request that DOT address the following comments and concerns
before we can proceed with processing your application
DWQ does not understand why the proposed channel relocation is being designed to have rip rap in the bottom
of the channel rather than a more natural channel design DWQ's 401 conditions states "Riprap shall not be
placed in the active thalweg channel or placed in the streambed in a manner that precludes aquatic life passage
Bioengineering boulders or structures should be properly designed, sized and installed " If slope and velocity is
the issue, why can't an additional grade control measure be installed rather than rip rapping the entire channel
Please provide us an explanation on why a more natural stream design is not proposed for this for this site
DWQ asked why a log vane was not proposed at this site rather than an rock vane DOT's explanation stated
that" The vane is proposed to be constructed from rock rather than longs to ensure longevity of the structure
and maintain stability of the existing and the relocated channel " If this is indeed the case, why were log vanes
used on the Jacksonville Bypass, Smith Ave and Military Cutoff projects? Has DOT ever installed a rock cross
vane in a coastal county? DWQ believes that a log vane is a more natural grade control structure for the
coastal plain and would like for DOT to provide additional information on why it is not being proposed on this
project?
Please provide us with the requested information prior to the end of commenting period for the public notice
(11/19/12) If we do not receive this information prior to this date DWQ will issue a hold letter on the application
If you have any questions about the information requested, please do not hesitate to contact me
Thanks'
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon @ncdenr gov
Phone [phone]

E mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
From. Stanton, Tyler P
Sent. Monday, October 29, 2012 7 26 AM
To Herndon, Mason
Cc: Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C, Atkinson, Paul
Subject. RE R -3432 Application
Mason,
Since all of your questions pertained to hydraulic design, the Hydraulics Unit has provided answers in the attached
email Let me know if you have any further questions
Tyler
From Herndon, Mason
Sent Monday, October 22, 2012 3 08 PM
To Stanton, Tyler P
Cc: Brad E Shaver6tusace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris
Subject: R -3432 Application
Importance. High
Tyler, I have reviewed the application for R -3432 (Old Georgetown Road Ext) in Brunswick County and have a couple of
questions and request
• Site 2 — Permit Drawing 10, Why is rip rap being proposed in the stream channel on the outlet of the pipe that
conveys stream SB?
• Site 2 — Please provide a stream profile for this crossing Example Permit Drawing 6 & 26
® Site 3—Permit Drawing 8 & 9 There appears to be a conveyance at this pipe location, was this claimed as a
tributary and part of the wetland? Is DOT proposing to bury this pipe or is it going to serve as an equalizer pipe
and be placed at natural grade?
• Site 5 — Permit Drawing 22 -26 It appears that DOT is proposing to rip rap the entire new proposed inlet channel
and install a rip rap pad on the outlet of this pipe crossing Please provide a detailed description of why the
inlet channel has to be rip rap and why a rip rap pad is required on the outlet? Can additional vanes be
constructed on the inlet to flatten the slope of the new proposed channel on the inlet and level out the pipe?
Please explain why a rock vane is being proposed rather than a log vane which is typical for the coastal plain
Please provide the requested material by November 30 If you cannot provide the requested material within the 7 days
requested, DWQ will have to issue a hold letter on this project
Please let me know if you have questions about the information requested
Thanksl
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon@ncdenr Pov
Phone [phone]
E -mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
6

Email correspondence to and from this sender is subject to the N C Public Records Law and may be disclosed to thi d parties

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Carrillo, Sonia
From Herndon, Mason
Sent Monday, December 10, 2012 11 44 AM
To Carrillo, Sonia
Subject FW R -3432 Application
Sonia, below is a e -mail request for additional information regarding the application for R -3432 (DWQ project #
20120935) Sorry for not forwarding this to you sooner
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon @ncdenr gov
Phone [phone]
E mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
From: Herndon, Mason
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 2 04 PM
To: Atkinson, Paul
Cc* Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject: RE R -3432 Application
Paul,
Thanks for the revised drawings I have a couple of questions
• Whys does Detail Q basically show a cross section of a typical base ditch instead of a natural stream channel
with floodplain benches?
• If the channel cross section was modified to a natural stream cross section with earthen flood plain benches
would rip rap bank stabilization still be required? At a minimum it should eliminate armoring of the stream
bank
Can Enlargement B be modified to eliminate rip rap in the channel downstream of the culvert?
Thanksl
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon @ncdenr gov
Phone [phone]
E mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
From. Atkinson, Paul
Sent Friday, November 16, 2012 4 02 PM
To- Herndon, Mason
Cc: Stanton, Tyler P, Brad E Shaver(dlusace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C
Subject RE R -3432 Application

Mason,
Attached please find our revised design per our conversation We have eliminated rip rap in the bed and have revised
the design to utilize several log sills as grade control structures rather than the single rock cross vane from the previous
design We examined using log cross vanes but due to the small size of the channel we feel that the log sills are better
suited to the site We have included a copy of the detail as well as the revised detail showing bank stabilization
If you have any questions please to do hesitate to contact me Thanks
Paul Atkinson, PE
Project Manager, TIP East
NCDOT Hydraulics Unit
Phone [phone] Fax [phone]
Mail 1590 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699 -1590
Delivery 1020 Birch Ridge Dr , Raleigh, NC 27610
From: Herndon, Mason
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 11 12 AM
To. Stanton, Tyler P
Cc. Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C, Atkinson, Paul
Subject: RE R -3432 Application
Importance: High
Tyler & Rachel,
Thank you for addressing DWQ's questions Based on the explanations you provided we have no further comments on
Sites 2 and 3, however we still have concerns with DOT's proposal for Site 5 The permanent stream impacts for this
project have gone from "no impacts" in the FONSI, to 277 If (which included slope stake plus 10 ft offset) after the
revised delineation (e -mail 7/26/11)and now to 366 If in the application The latest increase in impacts appears to be a
result of the proposed channel work at Site 5 DWQ request that DOT address the following comments and concerns
before we can proceed with processing your application
DWQ does not understand why the proposed channel relocation is being designed to have rip rap in the bottom
of the channel rather than a more natural channel design DWQ's 401 conditions states "Riprap shall not be
placed in the active thalweg channel or placed in the streambed in a manner that precludes aquatic life passage
Bioengineering boulders or structures should be properly designed, sized and installed " If slope and velocity is
the issue, why can't an additional grade control measure be installed rather than rip rapping the entire channel
Please provide us an explanation on why a more natural stream design is not proposed for this for this site
DWQ asked why a log vane was not proposed at this site rather than an rock vane DOT's explanation stated
that" The vane is proposed to be constructed from rock rather than longs to ensure longevity of the structure
and maintain stability of the existing and the relocated channel " If this is indeed the case, why were log vanes
used on the Jacksonville Bypass, Smith Ave and Military Cutoff projects? Has DOT ever installed a rock cross
vane in a coastal county? DWQ believes that a log vane is a more natural grade control structure for the
coastal plain and would like for DOT to provide additional information on why it is not being proposed on this
project?
Please provide us with the requested information prior to the end of commenting period for the public notice
(11/19/12) If we do not receive this information prior to this date DWQ will issue a hold letter on the application
If you have any questions about the information requested, please do not hesitate to contact me
Thanks)
I MH

Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting
mason herndon@ncdenr sov
Phone [phone]
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From Stanton, Tyler P
Sent, Monday, October 29, 2012 7 26 AM
To: Herndon, Mason
Cc Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris, Evans, Rachel C, Atkinson, Paul
Subject. RE R -3432 Application
Mason,
Since all of your questions pertained to hydraulic design, the Hydraulics Unit has provided answers in the attached
email Let me know if you have any further questions
Tyler
From Herndon, Mason
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 3 08 PM
To Stanton, Tyler P
Cc Brad E Shaver @usace army mil, Rivenbark, Chris
Subject: R -3432 Application
Importance High
Tyler, I have reviewed the application for R -3432 (Old Georgetown Road Ext) in Brunswick County and have a couple of
questions and request
O Site 2 — Permit Drawing 10, Why is rip rap being proposed in the stream channel on the outlet of the pipe that
conveys stream SB?
• Site 2 — Please provide a stream profile for this crossing Example Permit Drawing 6 & 26
o Site 3—Permit Drawing 8 &9 There appears to be a conveyance at this pipe location, was this claimed as a
tributary and part of the wetland? Is DOT proposing to bury this pipe or is it going to serve as an equalizer pipe
and be placed at natural grade?
c Site 5 — Permit Drawing 22 -26 It appears that DOT is proposing to rip rap the entire new proposed inlet channel
and install a rip rap pad on the outlet of this pipe crossing Please provide a detailed description of why the
inlet channel has to be rip rap and why a rip rap pad is required on the outlet? Can additional vanes be
constructed on the inlet to flatten the slope of the new proposed channel on the inlet and level out the pipe?
Please explain why a rock vane is being proposed rather than a log vane which is typical for the coastal plain
Please provide the requested material by November 30 If you cannot provide the requested material within the 7 days
requested, DWQ will have to issue a hold letter on this project
Please let me know if you have questions about the information requested
Thanksl
MH
Mason Herndon
NCDENR, Division of Water Quality
Surface Water Protection /Transportation Permitting

mason herndon @ncdenr gov
Phone [phone]
E -mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties
Email correspondence to and from this sender is subject to the N C Public Records law and may be disclosed to third parties