20091297 Ver 1_Staff Comments_20100113 (333)

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Lucas, Annette
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:49 AM
To: Homewood, Sue
Cc: Chapman, Amy-, Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWO 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
Sue,
Good - I am glad it worked out and I will answer any questions the consultant may have. I'll write you a condition for
diffuse flow for the 401 cert that will make things somewhat more clear for them.
This is confusing, but SW and buffers are two separate programs. The 401 program will accept SW from certified
communities as always. We will also accept buffer approvals from certified communities that have buffer programs.
Have you seen this map: http://www.jordanlake.org/rnap? It summarizes whether the state or local government
implement buffer rules throughout the basin.
Per the Jordan buffer rule, federal, state and local projects will have their diffuse flow plans reviewed by the state
regardless of where they are located. That is what is going on with the Keeley Park project.
I have copied Arny who is doing a bit of work from home. I consulted her to write this response and she will elaborate
on or correct what I have said above if appropriate.
Thanks,
A
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:54 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Cc: Karoly, Cyndi
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
I just spoke with the consultant who talked with the City. They are very appreciative that we can do this and they will
begin working on the diffuse flow plan asap. Annette, I gave them your info as the contact person if they have questions
or issues they want to go over with you.
When this happens in the future, will you be accepting the city's review of the SMP measures (say it's a wet pond) and
then only reviewing the documentation for the level spreader/diffuse flow in detail? Or will you review the entire SMP
frorn beginning to end (all the calcs etc). If you are now going to review everything I won't tell people to go get the City
approval (or other delegated muni etc) first/in conjunction etc.
Sue Homewood
NC DENR Winston-Salem Regional Office,
Division of Water Quality
585 Waughtown Street
',Kinston Salem, NC 271.07
'`.'ice: (336) 771
(1_36) '771AC1-10
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:28 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Cc: Karoly, Cyndi
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
I just spoke with Cyndi - we came up with the idea that we could go ahead and issue the 401 with a condition that they
provide a diffuse flow plan to us within 60 days of issuance. That way, their project would not be held up but we would
be properly implementing the Jordan buffer rule. What do you think of that?
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:13 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
I don't see how they can get out of it either, but this could be a big enough deal breaker that we (i.e. you and Cyndi) get
calls about it. Although I would disagree with your assessment. No one understands that these new rules suddenly
apply. I am taking calls about Jordan daily and dealing with projects that had no idea about them, even good engineers
and consultants. Plus, in this case they used the same PCN they filled out for the USACE a year ago and then when they
realized the impacts would be greater than our thresholds and that they would need a permit from us too, they just
shipped it off asap. Heck, I wasn't even making the full connection even when I knew the rules applied but didn't make
the connection about the duplicity of SMP review not working because of the diffuse flow.
Sue Homewood
NC DENR Winston-Salem Regional Office
Division of Water Quality
585 Waughtown Street
Winston-Salem, NC 27107
Voice: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:06 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
It seems to me that they have to follow the Jordan Rules, don't you think? I don't feel completely sorry for them because
they blew off the diffuse flow questions in Section E of the PCN form. I guess they hoped if they would ignore it, it would
go away.
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:03 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
That date is after the Jordan rules went into effect. Sorry. That's only part of whether the rules apply or not, the other
is the 1104 issuance.
Stie Homewood
N(..- D Ni? Winston Salem Regional Office
Division of Water Quality
1185 Waughtown Street
Winston--Salern, NC 27107
Voice: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:02 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
What about the date of their 401 app? It seems like that should determine whether the Jordan rules apply or not.
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:00 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
It gets more confusing now.
They originally applied for a 404 before the Jordan rules but didn't get their approved 404 until after the Jordan rules. I
do not know exactly when the City finalized their review of the SMP. The way the Jordan rules are worded though, they
have to meet the buffer portion (including diffuse flow) if they didn't have the 404 in hand when the rules were passed.
Sue Homewood
NC DENR Winston-Salem Regional Office
Division of Water Quality
585 Waughtown Street
Winston-Salem, NC 27107
Voice: (3:36) 771 4964
FAX: [phone]
E mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:47 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
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Was the initial application made before or after the effective date of the Jordan Rules?
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From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:44 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
Ok. It sucks for the applicant, they've been designing for 2 t- years and had everything done, in fact they've hired the
contractor (why they are so eager for their permit). But I expect this will come up a lot in the next year so if I can help
during/with the discussion, please let me know.
Sue Homewood
NC DENR Winston-Salem Regional Office
Division of Water Quality
585 Waughtown Street
Winston-Salem, NC 27107
Voice: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 3:39 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
Wow - that is confusing. Let me discuss this with Cyndi/Amy before you contact the applicant and we'll try to figure out
what we should do here.
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:41 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
Yes, this is within the new Jordan Buffer area (not Randleman) and since it's a City project, we have to ensure they've
met the buffer rules.
My understanding is that the City has reviewed and approved the SNIP, however they likely did it before the Jordan
Rules came into effect and/or didn't review it in accordance with the Jordan Rules. This will be a loophole I can see
happening in the Jordan area for the local projects where the Jordan applies as of now but they aren't reviewing for
Jordan requirements yet because they don't have their ordinances changed etc.
So, I guess in this case, duplicity can't work because the City didn't review it for diffuse flow so you'll need to. Am I
correct? I can contact the consultant and let him know that I didn't think about that when I told him we honor the City
review and approval process unless we see anything major when we get our copy of it.
Glad you caught that, I was only looking at the impacts to the buffer from the new trail system, l haven't seen a plan that
shows the stormwater outfalls,
Thank you so much for reviewing this asap. If you agree with my conciusions above, I will write a hold letter stating the
Jordan Rules diffuse flow apply and they should revise their SMP to mr=et it and then we will take the normal 30 days to
review once we get it.
Sue I-lonnewc-rod
NC DENR Winston-Salem }regional Office
Division of Water Quality
585 Waughtown Street
Winston-Salem, NC 27107
Voice; [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail correspondence to and frorn this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 2:30 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
Sue -
Is Keeley Park owned and operated by the City of Greensboro? If so, are they holding their own project to all locally
implemented SW standards? It might be good to ask and make sure that duplicity of effort really does apply (I can ask if
you prefer that i do it).
The applicant says that Jordan Lake Buffer rules apply - does he main Randleman?
If buffer rules do apply, then the main concern that I see with this one is that there do not appear to be diffuse flow
measures in place. I am seeing many pipes discharging directly through the buffer, which does not comply with the
either the Jordan Lake or Randleman Buffer rules. I don't think we should issue a 401 until that problem is corrected.
Please let me know if you have questions.
A
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:34 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
Anytime this week will be soon enough. Thanks Annette.
By the way, I do look at the local program SMPs like we talked about a while back, I make sure the impervious % is right,
that the measures seem roughly the right size/surface area, that there are diffuse flow as needed etc.
Sue Homewood
NC DENR Winston-Salem Regional Office
Division (,)' -? ater Quality
585 W, . ?v , Street
Win,;tc ?i, \iC 27107
Voice: (33' 772-4964
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FAX: [phone]
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:32 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
OK - I'll pull it tomorrow - I'm about to head out today.
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:31 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
I think that the parking area and new buildings are high density. I haven't seen the plan yet. Please pull a copy and look
at it as soon as you get a chance. This one has been very convoluted in its permitting history and they've already gone
to bid and crazy anxious to get my permit. I've reviewed the walking trail for meeting the new Jordan Rules, so don't
worry about those when you review it.
Sue Homewood
NC DENR Winston-Salem Regional Office
Division of Water Quality
585 Waughtown Street
Winston-Salem, NC 27107
Voice: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Lucas, Annette
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:17 PM
To: Homewood, Sue
Cc: Dennison, Laurie
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
I usually like to take a quick giance at the SMP to be sure the plan isn't crazy. Since this one is a park, is it low density' If
it is, then I don't think I need to see it. H it "s high density, I shuuldl p... . , ._ke. a quick look at it. Please let me know
and I will pull the project from the file if necessary (don't have a copy in my office right now.)
From: Homewood, Sue
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:03 PM
To: Lucas, Annette
Cc: Dennison, Laurie
Subject: RE: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
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Just an FYI, this has already been reviewed and approved by City of Greensboro, so you shouldn't need to review in
detail. They are very anxious to get this perrnit from me. I wasn't going to hold it waiting for your review, if I'm wrong,
holler loud. Thanks, Sue
Sue Hor'newood
NC DE.NR Winston Salem Regional Office
Division of Water Quality
585 Waughtown Street
Winston-Salem, NC 27107
Voice: [phone]
FAX: [phone]
E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
From: Dennison, Laurie
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:25 AM
To: [e-mail]
Cc: Homewood, Sue
Subject: DWQ 09-1297 C.O. Greensboro Keeley Park Site (Guilford)
On January 11, 2010, the Division of Water Quality (DWQ) received your storm water
management report dated January 7, 2010 for the above referenced project.
When large scale maps are involved DWQ requests one (1) data CD of full sized plans in TIFF Group 4
format (black and white, not grayscale or color). If the plans are too large to store in TIFF format, they
can be stored in PDF.
Please submit the requested CD so DWQ can begin the review and approval process. Please call
Ian McMillan or Cyndi Karoly at 919-733-1786 if you have any questions regarding this matter.
Laurie Dennison
401 Oversight and Express Permits Unit
Wetlands & Stormwater Branch
NCDENR - Division of Water Quality
Main Line: [phone]
Website: http: QO.enr.state,nc.uslncwetlanos
Note updated email address huriej.dennison(?ricden-r._gov
Email correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be
disclosed to third parties.
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