NCG140387_Emails RE Flow Monitoring_20191218

Georgoulias, Bethany
From:
Georgoulias, Bethany
Sent:
Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:49 PM
To:
Lambe, Brian; Morman, Alaina; Strickland, Shane
Cc:
Sams, Dan; [e-mail]
Subject:
RE: NCG140447 Thomas
Brian,
The COC numbers there are confusing. This is not NCG140447, right? That's a permit that's been rescinded. Is it the
NCG140387?
Bethany Georgoulias
Environmental Engineer
Stormwater Program, Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources
N.C. Department of Environmental Quality
919 707 3641 office
[e-mail]
512 N. Salisbury Street, Raleigh, NC 27604 (location)
1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1612 (mailing)
Website: http//deq.nc.gov/about/divisions/energy-mineral-land-resources/stormwater
From: Lambe, Brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:13 PM
To: Morman, Alaina <[e-mail]>; Georgoulias, Bethany<[e-mail]>;
Strickland, Shane <[e-mail]>
Cc: Sams, Dan <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Subject: NCG140447 Thomas
NCG140447 Thomas Concrete in Supply, Brunswick County is in review. The property is currently permitted as Shallotte
Ready Mix Facility NCG140387. There is an active SW8 permit on the site that does complicate some issues. The
immediate question by Ms. Lily Walker of Dunklee Dunham is do they have to use a continuous flow monitor considering
the discharge to HWQ? The discharge is to an unnamed tributary of Williams Branch, C; Sw, HQW, approximately % mile
or 3,000ft from Williams Branch. The permit for wastewater discharge requires Daily flow rate by a continuous monitor.
If you read the footnote 5, this assumes a pump or continuous flow. Thomas maintains that there was no discharge last
year from the stormwater pond. There was discharge from the recycle system to the stormwater pond. I do question if
there was a discharge last year considering the quantity of rain. Without discharge to surface waters, do they need to
monitor the Daily Flow Rate? What additional information do we need to determine applicability of section D
(wastewater)?
Brian Lambe
Environmental Specialist
910-796-7313
State of North Carolina I Environmental Quality I Energy, Mineral and Land Resources
127 Cardinal Drive Extension I Wilmington, NC 28405
910 796 7215 T 1 910 350 2004 F I http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/lr/

Georgoulias, Bethany
From:
Georgoulias, Bethany
Sent:
Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:45 PM
To:
Lambe, Brian; Morman, Alaina; Strickland, Shane
Cc:
Sams, Dan; [e-mail]
Subject:
RE: NCG140447 Thomas
Brian,
If there is no discharge, they do not have to monitor flow, but they need to be certain there was no discharge at all to
report "no discharge" for the entire monitoring period (not just a few times when they checked). In a situation where
discharge is extremely rare, I would recommend they propose a good way to estimate flow rate in the event of a
discharge as their "alternative" method that we can consider. But we can't exempt them from flow monitoring all
together (should there be a discharge) because it is a monitoring requirement for the wastewater under NCG14.
If they have an idea of what volume event (in inches) that it takes to prompt the pond to actually discharge, perhaps
they could run a calculation based on drainage area, pond capacity, and typical freeboard. You mentioned a state
stormwater permit applied here — are there details on hand about that design? The permittee or their consultant should
research and identify a reasonable alternative to a continuous flow monitor in this situation. It sounds like it would be a
rare case that the site would have to use the method to estimate flow at all.
Bethany Georgoulias
Environmental Engineer
Stormwater Program, Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources
N.C. Department of Environmental Quality
919 707 3641 office
[e-mail]
512 N. Salisbury Street, Raleigh, NC 27604 (location)
1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1612 (mailing)
Website: http://deq.nc.gov/about/divisions/energy-mineral-land-resources/stormwater
From: Lambe, Brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:13 PM
To: Morman, Alaina <[e-mail]>; Georgoulias, Bethany<[e-mail]>;
Strickland, Shane <[e-mail]>
Cc: Sams, Dan <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Subject: NCG140447 Thomas
NCG140447 Thomas Concrete in Supply, Brunswick County is in review. The property is currently permitted as Shallotte
Ready Mix Facility NCG140387. There is an active SW8 permit on the site that does complicate some issues. The
immediate question by Ms. Lily Walker of Dunklee Dunham is do they have to use a continuous flow monitor considering
the discharge to HWQ? The discharge is to an unnamed tributary of Williams Branch, C; Sw, HQW, approximately % mile
or 3,000ft from Williams Branch. The permit for wastewater discharge requires Daily flow rate by a continuous monitor.
If you read the footnote 5, this assumes a pump or continuous flow. Thomas maintains that there was no discharge last
year from the stormwater pond. There was discharge from the recycle system to the stormwater pond. I do question if
there was a discharge last year considering the quantity of rain. Without discharge to surface waters, do they need to

monitor the Daily Flow Rate? What additional information do we need to determine applicability of section D
(wastewater)?
Brian Lambe
Environmental Specialist
910-796-7313
State of North Carolina I Environmental Quality I Energy, Mineral and Land Resources
127 Cardinal Drive Extension I Wilmington, NC 28405
910 796 7215 T 1910 350 2004 F I httu://portal.ncdenr.org/web/lr/

Georgoulias, Bethany
From: Lambe, Brian
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 1:13 PM
To: Morman, Alaina; Georgoulias, Bethany; Strickland, Shane
Cc: Sams, Dan; [e-mail]
Subject: NCG140447 Thomas
Attachments: Thomas arial.pdf, Thomas stream classification.pdf
NCG140447 Thomas Concrete in Supply, Brunswick County is in review. The property is currently permitted as Shallotte
Ready Mix Facility NCG140387. There is an active SW8 permit on the site that does complicate some issues. The
immediate question by Ms. Lily Walker of Dunklee Dunham is do they have to use a continuous flow monitor considering
the discharge to HWQ? The discharge is to an unnamed tributary of Williams Branch, C; Sw, HQW, approximately % mile
or 3,000ft from Williams Branch. The permit for wastewater discharge requires Daily flow rate by a continuous monitor.
If you read the footnote 5, this assumes a pump or continuous flow. Thomas maintains that there was no discharge last
year from the stormwater pond. There was discharge from the recycle system to the stormwater pond. I do question if
there was a discharge last year considering the quantity of rain. Without discharge to surface waters, do they need to
monitor the Daily Flow Rate? What additional information do we need to determine applicability of section D
(wastewater)?
Brian Lambe
Environmental Specialist
910-796-7313
State of North Carolina I Environmental Quality I Energy, Mineral and Land Resources
127 Cardinal Drive Extension I Wilmington, NC 28405
910 796 7215 T 1910 350 2004 F I htto: oortal.ncdenr.orgiweb ilri

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