19980699 Ver 1_COMPLETE FILE_19980717

State of North Carolina
Department of Environment
and Natural Resources
Division of Water Quality
e??
James B. Hunt, Jr., Governor NC ENR
Wayne McDevitt, Secretary NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF
A. Preston Howard, Jr., P.E., Director ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES
January 20, 1999
Wake County
DWQ Project # 980699
APPROVAL of 401 Water Quality Certification and ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS and Neuse River Buffer Rules
Realty Services Group, Inc.
8641 Baypine Road; Suite 1
Jacksonville, NC 32256
Dear Sirs:
You have our approval, in accordance with the attached conditions and those listed below, to place fill material in 165 linear
feet of streams for the purpose of constructing a road crossing and utility crossings for Thistledown Apt., as you described in your
application dated January 5, 1999. After reviewing your application, we have decided that this fill is covered by General Water
Quality Certification Numbers 3101 and 3103. These certifications allow you to use Nationwide Permit Numbers 12 and 14 when
the Corps of Engineers issues them. This approval is also valid for the Neuse River buffer rules (15A NCAC 2B .033). In
addition, you should get any other federal, state or local permits before you go ahead with your project including (but not limited
to) Sediment and Erosion Control, Coastal Stormwater, Non-Discharge and Water Supply Watershed regulations. This approval
will expire when the accompanying 404 or CAMA permit expires unless otherwise specified in the General Certification.
This approval is only valid for the purpose and design that you described in your application except as modified below. If
you change your project, you must notify us and you may be required to send us a new application.. If the property is sold, the
new owner must be given a copy of this Certification and approval letter and is thereby responsible for complying with all
conditions. If total wetland fills for this project (now or in the future) exceed one acre, compensatory mitigation may be required
as described in 15A NCAC 2H .0506 (h) (6) and (7). For this approval to be valid, you must follow the conditions listed in the
attached certification and any additional conditions listed below.
1. Deed notifications or similar mechanisms shall be placed on all lots with remaining jurisdictional
wetlands and waters or areas within 50 feet of all streams and ponds to notify the state in order to
assure compliance for future wetland and/or water impact. These mechanisms shall be put in place
within 30 days of the date of this letter or the issuance of the 404 Permit (whichever is later).
2. Stormwater management from this site shall be designed to result in non-erosive velocities and
diffuse flow for up to the 10 year, 24 hour storm. DWQ must be provided this design and calculations
to support the design for written approval before any stream impact.
3. All sediment and erosion control devices except those for the road and sewer crossings must be placed
outside the 50 foot wide buffer zone.
If you do not accept any of the conditions of this certification, you may ask for an adjudicatory hearing. You must act
within 60 days of the date that you receive this letter. To ask for a hearing, send a written petition, which conforms to Chapter
150B of the North Carolina General Statutes to the Office of Administrative Hearings, P.O. Box 27447, Raleigh, N.C. 27611-
7447. This certification and its conditions are final and binding unless you ask for a hearing.
This letter completes the review of the Division of Water Quality under Section 401 of the Clean Water Act. If you have
any questions, please telephone John Dorney at 919-733-1786.
Attachment
cc: Wilmington District Corps of Engineers
Corps of Engineers Raleigh Field Office
Raleigh DWQ Regional Office
John Dorney
Central Files
Ken Thompson; Paton and Zucchino
' cerel 2%zl
s n H980699.1tr

Division of Water Quality • Non-Discharge Branch
4401 Reedy Creek Rd., Raleigh, NC 27607 Telephone [phone] FAX # [phone]
An Equal Opportunity Affirmative Action Employer • 50% recycled/10% post consumer paper
State of North Carolina
Department of Environment
and Natural Resources
Division of Water Quality
James B. Hunt, Jr., Governor
Wayne McDevitt, Secretary
A. Preston Howard, Jr., P.E., Director
D E N R
Division of Water Quality
Environmental Sciences Branch
4401 Reedy Creek Road
Raleigh, N.C. 27607
FAX:[phone]
FAX TO: r- >tU" liUC C W0-0 1 FAX NUMBER:
FROM:
PHONE:
NO. OF PAGES INCLUDING THIS SHEET:
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PATON / ZUCCHINO
& ASSOUXITS, N A.
January 5, 1999
John Dorney
North Carolina Division of Water Quality
P.O. Box 29535
Raleigh, NC 27626-0533
RE: DWQ Project # 98-0699
Neuse River Riparian Buffer Rule
Pre-Construction Notification
Dear John:
This letter is in response to your letter dated December 22, 1998. Below we have addressed all
issues in your letter.
1. Yes, we must construct this project with the proposed road crossing. As per city of Raleigh
ordinance, we must provide two access points to all parts of the project for the safety and
welfare of the public for all projects with more than 180 units. Also the maximum length for
a cal-de-sac in the city of Raleigh is 800' which we would exceed if we did not provide the
proposed crossing. We have provided a draft copy of the letter to be signed by the city of Raleigh. It is currently being reviewed by the city's planning department and will be
forwarded to you upon its signing by the city.
2. We have provided the stream and wetland impact information as requested. Please see the
attached revised pre-construction certification application and plans.
3. Please see the attached letter from Bass, Nixon and Kennedy regarding stormwater issues.
4. All soil and erosion control measures have been revised as per your comments. As per a
conversation with Cindy Bell we have provided silt fence along the toe of slope for the road ,---
crossing.
5. Please see revised application for nationwide pert-nit numbers. S&EC Environmental IZ-
Consultants will file these permits at a later time.
6. Regarding compensatory mitigation for a perennial stream, we have revised our plans to limit
stream disturbances to less than 150 LF total per stream.
Thank you for your time. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
Ken Thompson, RLA ASLA
Paton/Zucchino & Associates, P.A.
Attachments: Application (7 copies)
Cc: Danny Smith - DWQ Raleigh Field Office
Corps of Engineers
T
BASS, NIXON & KENNEDY, INC., CONSULTING ENGINEERS
7416 CHAPEL HILL ROAD, RALEIGH, NC 27607
919/851-4422 a FAX [phone]
December 29, 1998
NC Department of Environment & Natural Resources
Division of Water Quality
4401 Reedy Creek Road
Raleigh, North Carolina 27607
Attn: Mr. John R. Dorney
Re: DWQ Project 980699
Dear John:
In response to a letter forwarded to our office concerning Project
980699 1 offer the following comments:
All storm water runoff from streets and parking lots are collected and
then dispersed into sheet flow before entering the Neuse River buffers
within our site. All storm water runoff from buildings are also
dispensed into sheet flow and filtered through, in most cases,
undisturbed woods and assorted vegetation before entering the Neuse
River buffers.
The layout for this project contains one street crossing which impacts
a Neuse River buffer. This second crossing is needed to meet the
safety needs of this proposed community. Also it is my understanding
that the City of Raleigh requires a second access. Currently there are
no other locations to provide the second access without impacting the
buffer. Only 280 feet separates the property line from the upper end
of the buffer which splits the property in half. This area already
contains our first access to the rear of the property. The access
which impacts the buffer has been designed with 2:1 sideslopes to
minimize the disturbance which has been restricted to less than 130
feet of stream impact.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to call.
Very trul ours,
XON & ENNEDY, INC.
K. Robert Bell, Jr., PE
cc: Michael Lattner
bb/proj 980699/1119
TOTAL P.©2
980699
DWQ ID: CORPS ACTION ID:
NATIONWIDE PERMIT REQUESTED (PROVIDE NATIONWIDE PERMIT #)
14 and 18
PRE-CONSTRUCTION NOTIFICATION APPLICATION
FOR NATIONWIDE PERMITS THAT REQUIRE: -
1) NOTIFICATION TO THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS
2) APPLICATION FOR SECTION 401 CERTIFCATION
3) COORDINATION WITH THE NC DIVISION OF COASTAL MANAGEMENT
SEND THE ORIGINAL AND (1) COPY OF THIS COMPLETED FORM TO THE APPROPRIATE
FIELD OFFICE OF THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS (SEE AGENCY ADDRESSES SHEET). SEVEN
(7) COPIES MUST BE SENT TO THE NC DIVISION OF WATER
QUALITY, ATTN• JOHN DORNEY, 4401 REEDY CREEK ROAD,
RALEIGH, NC 27607. PLEASE PRINT OR TYPE.
1. OWNER'S NAME: Realty Services Group, Inc.
2. MAILING ADDRESS:
8641 Baypine Road, Suite 1
CITY: Jacksonville STATE
SUBDIVISION NAME
FL
ZIP CODE:
32256
PROJECT LOCATION ADDRESS, INCLUDING SUBDIVISION NAME (IF DIFFERENT FROM
MAILING ADDRESS ABOVE):
Thistledown Drive, east of Gorman Road
3. TELEPHONE NUMBER: (HOME)
(WORK)
[phone]
4. IF APPLICABLE: AGENT'S NAME OR RESPONSIBLE CORPORATE OFFICIAL, ADDRESS,
PHONE NUMBER:
Agent: Paton/Zucchino & Associates P.A.
1001 Wade Ave., Suite 101, Raleigh NC 27605
Attn: Ken Thompson [phone]
5. LOCATION OF WORK (PROVIDE A MAP, PREFERABLY A COPY OF USGS TOPOGRAPHIC
MAP OR AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY WITH SCALE):
COUNTY: Wake - NEAREST TOWN
See attached USGS topographic map.
Raleigh
SPECIFIC LOCATION (INCLUDE ROAD NUMBERS, LANDMARKS,:ECT.) On Thistledown
Road beginning at the intersection of Thistledown Road and Trailwood
to the creek crossing-on Thistledown. The site is bordered on the
south by I-40.
6. IMPACTED OR NEAREST STREAMIRIVER: Present but not named
RIVER BASIN: Neuse River
7a. IS PROJECT LOCATED NEAR WATER CLASSIFIED AS TROUT, TIDAL SALTWATER, (SA),
HIGH QUALITY WATERS (HQW), OUTSTANDING RESOURSE WATERS (ORW), WATER
SUPPLY (WS-I OR WS-II)? YES ( ) NO ( X:) IF YES, EXPLAIN:
7b. IS THE PROJECT LOCATED WITHIN A NORTH CAROLINA DIVISION OF COASTAL
MANAGEMENT AREA OF ENVIROMENTAL CONCERN (AEC)? YES ( ) NO ( X )
7c. IF THE PROJECT IS LOCATED WITHIN A COASTAL COUNTY (SEE PAGE 7 FOR LIST OF
COASTAL COUNTIES), WHAT IS THE LAND USE PLAN (LUP) DESIGNATION?
8a. HAVE ANY SECTION 404 PERMITS BEEN PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED FOR USE ON THIS
PROJECT? YES ( ) NO ( X) IF YES, PROVIDE ACTION I.D. NUMBER OF PREVIOUS
PERMIT AND ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION (INCLUDE PHOTOCOPY OF 401
CERTIFICATION): N/A -
8b. ARE ADDITIONAL PERMIT REQUESTS EXPECTED FOR THIS PROPERTY IN THE
FUTURE? YES ( ) NO (X ) IF YES, DESCRIBE ANTICIPATED WORK: N/A
9a. ESTIMATED TOTAL NUMBERS OF ACRES IN TRACT OF LAND: 25 AC
9b. ESTIMATED TOTAL NUMBER OF ACRES OF WETLANDS LOCATED ON PROJECT SITE:
0.21 AC
10a. NUMBER OF ACRES OF WETLANDS IMPACTED BY THE PROPOSED PROJECT BY:
FILLING: 0.008 AC
FLOODING: N/A
DRAINAGE : N/A
EXCAVATION: 0.004
OTHER: N/A _
TOTAL ACRES TO BE IMPACTED: 0.012
10b. (1) STREAM CHANNEL TO BE IMPACTED BY THE PROPOSED PROJECT (IF
RELOCATED, PROVIDEp2SOTANCE BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER RELOCATION:
LENGTH BEFORE: 1 @ 145 FT AFTER: NIA
WIDTH BEFORE (based on normal high water contours): 5±
FT
AVERAGE DEPTH BEFORE: FT AFTER: Same r 1
(2) STREAM CHANNEL IMPACTS WILL RESULT FROM: (CHECK ALL THAT APPLY)
OPEN CHANNEL RELOCATION: PLACEMENT OF PIPE IN CHANNEL: X ;,(125 1 )
CHANNEL EXCAVATION: COONSTRUCTION OF A DAM/FLOODING:
OTHER: Sanit^ry sewer crossing (2 @ 20')
11. IF CONSTRUCTION OF A POND IS PROPOSED, WHAT IS THE SIZE OF THE WATERSHED
DRAINING TO THE POND? N/A WHAT IS THE EXPECTED
POND SURFACE AREA? N/A
12. DISCTIPTION OF PROPOSED WORK INCLUDING DISCUSSION OF TYPE OF MECHANICAL
EQUIPMENT TO BE USED? (ATTACH PLANS; 81/2 BY 11 DRAWINGS ONLY)
Excavate trench to_RIarP 811 puhlir sanitary cPwPr main Per rir?z
requirements. Place storm pipe on bed of channel at road crossin
and rip rap up and down stream then fill over pipe. Equipment
used: backhoe, tamper, and bulldozer.
13. PURPOSE OF PROPOSED WORK: To provide sanitary sewer service to
subject property as required by the City of Raleigh, and 1 road -
crossing to provide access to the site.
14. STATE REASONS WHY IT IS BELIEVED THAT THIS ACTIVITY MUST BE CARRIED OUT IN
WETLANDS (INCLUDE ANY MEASURES TAKEN TO MINIMIZE WETLAND IMPACTS)
As per City of Raleigh ordinance, developer must provide 2 points of access to the
site if t-ni-47 _A of units i e n•Tnr1 80 Also witheut ems eed the
maximum length of a cul-de-sac of 800' to limit impact we have provided a retaining
wall and use 2:1 slopes.
15. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO CONTACT THE US FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE AND/OR
NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERIVE REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF ANY FEDERALY
LISTED OR PROPOSED FOR LISTING ENDANGERED OR THREATENED SPECIES OR
CRITICAL HABITAT IN THE PERMIT AREA THAT MAY BE AFFECTED BY THE PROPOSED.
PROJECT. DATE CONTACTED: N/A
16. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO CONTACT THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER
(SHPO) REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF HISTORIC PROPERTIES IN THE PERMIT AREA
WHICH MAY BE AFFECTED BY THE PROPOSED PROJECT. DATE CONTACTED
N/A
17. DOES THE PROJECT INVOLVE AN EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC FUNDS OT THE USE OF
PUBLIC (STATE) LAND? YES ( ) NO ( X ) (IF NO, GO TO 16)
a. IF YES, DOES THE PROJECT REQUIRE PREPERATION OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL
DOCUMENT PURUANT TO THE REQUIREMENT'S OF THE NORTH CAROLINA
ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ACT? YES ( ) NO ( )
b. IF YES, HAS THE DOCUMENT BEEN REFIEWED THROUGH THE NORTH CAROLINA
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION STATE CLEARINGHOUSE YES ( ) NO ( )
IF ANSWER 17b IS YES, THEN SUBMIT APPROPRIATE DOCUMENTATION-FROM THE STATE
CLEARINGHOUSE WITH THE NORTH CAROLINA ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ACT.
QUESTIONS REGARDING THE STATE CLEARINGHOUSE REVIEW PROCESS SHOULD BE
DIRECTED TO MS. CHRYS BAGGETT, DIRECTOR STATE CLEARINGHOUSE, NORTH
CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, 116 WEST JONES STREET, RALEIGH,
NORTH CAROLINA 27603-8003, TELEPHONE [phone].
18. THE FOLLOWING ITEMS SHOULD BE INCLUDED WITH THIS APPLICATION IF PROPOSED
ACTIVITY INVOLVES THE DISCHARGE OF EXCAVATED OF FILL MATERIAL INTO
WETLANDS:
a. WETLAND DELINEATION MAP SHOWING ALL WETLANDS, STREAMS, LAKES, AND
PONDS ON THE PROPERTY (FOR NATIONWIDE PERMIT NUMBERS 14, 18, 21, 26, 29,
AND 38). ALL STREAM (INTERMITTENT AND PERMANENT) ON THE PROPERTY
MUST BE SHOWN ON THE MAP.. MAP SCALES SHOULD BE 1 INCH EQUALS 50 FEET
OF 1 INCH EQUALS 100 FEET OF THEIR EQUIVALENT.
b. IF AVAILABLE, REPRESENTATIVE PHOTOGRAPH OF WETLANDS TO BE IMPACTED
BY PRODUCT.
c. IF DELINEATION WAS PERFORMED BY A CONSULTANT, INCLUDE ALL DATA
SHEETS RELEVANT TO THE PLACEMENT OF THE DELINEATION LINE.
d. ATTACH A COPY OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN IF REQUIRED.
e. WHAT IS LAND USE OF SURROUNDING PROPOERTY?
A combination of residential to the north and east, with
commercial to the west and I-40 to the south.
f. IF APPLICABLE, WHAT IS PROPOSED METHOD OF SEWAGE DISPOSAL? _
Public gravity sanitary sewer
SIGNED AND DATED AGENT AUTHORIZATION LETTER, IF APPLICABLE.
NOTE: WTLANDS OR WATERS OF THE US MAY NOT BE IMPACTED PRIOR TO:
1) ISSUANCE OF A SECTION 404 CORPS OF ENGINEERS PERMIT,
2) EITHER THE ISSUANCE OR WAIVER OF A 401 DIVISION OF WATER QUALITY
CERTIFICATION, AND
3) (IN THE TWENTY COASTAL COUNTIES ONLY), A LETTER FROM THE NORTH
CAROLINA DIVISION OF COASTAL MANAGEMENT STATING THE PROPOSED
ACTIVITY IS CONSISTENT WITH THE NORTH CAROLINA COASTAL
MANAGEMENT PROGRAM,
40NPERR?'4S/ ENT' S S N DATE
(AGENT'S SIGNATURE VALID ONLY
IF AUTHORIZATION LETTER FROM r(,/ J
THE OWNER IS PROVIDED).

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- BASS, NIXON & KENNEDY, INC., CONSULTING ENGINEERS
NC Department of Environment & Natural Resources
Division of Water Quality
4401 Reedy Creek Road
Raleiq_ h, North Carolina 27607
Attn: Mr. John R. Dorney
7416 CHAPEL HILL ROAD, RALEIGH, NC 27607
919/851-4422 ¦ FAX [phone]
December 29, 1998
Re: DWQ Project 980699
Dear John:
In response to a letter forwarded to our office concerning Project
980699 1 offer the following comments:
All storm water runoff from streets and parking lots are collected and
then dispersed into sheet flow before entering the Neuse River buffers
within our site. All storm water runoff from buildings are also
dispensed into sheet flow and filtered through, in most cases,
undisturbed woods and assorted vegetation before entering the Neuse
River buffers.
The layout for this project contains one street crossing which impacts
a Neuse River buffer. This second crossing is needed to meet the
safety needs of this proposed community. Also it is my understanding
that the City of Raleigh requires a second access. Currently there are
no other locations to provide the second access without impacting the
buffer. Only 280 feet separates the property line from the upper end
of the buffer which splits the property in half. This area already
contains our first access to the rear of the property. The access
which impacts the buffer has been designed with 2:1 sideslopes to
minimize the disturbance which has been restricted to less than 130
feet of stream impact.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to call.
Very trul ours,
XON & ENNEDY, INC.
K. Robert Bell, Jr., PE
cc: Michael Lattner
bb/proj 980699/1119
01/11/33 14:06 0919 828 7068 PATON-ZUCCHINO 0 001/1003
FAX COVER SHEET
PA.TON/ZUCCHINO
& ASSOCIATES, P.A.
DATE: 11 it I q4
TO: Jewpi a0k ww
COMPANY: 10 t4G? PVJ (k
PHONE:
FAX: 73 3 •-17 57
(Xqq
FROM: Yod 11
COMPANY: PA,TON/ZUCCIUNO & ASSOCIATES, P.A.
PHONE: [phone]
FAX- [phone]
Number of pages h3cludh% cover sheet:

COMMENTS
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[phone]
[phone] FAX
ton-zucchino.com
C•?.? D*AJAJY www.paion-zucchino.com
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a-mail; pza(tp atp-zutthino.tam
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01/11/33 14:06
01/08/99 15:53
01190/1999 12:30
61107/89 18"31
January 5, 1999
$919 828 7068
V9198335413
9?gig83?B?I3
Miebal L trier
Director of P1a mia$
Cline Davis Architects PA
414 W. Jones Street
Raleigh, 14C 27603
Reference: Thistledavm Drive Apartments
Dear W. Lattner.
PATON-MCCHINO
CLINE DAVIS
OLIN I Y IMMU t iurr?
X1002/003
itOOZ/ooz
rM,7 41/ VL
jr, response to your tsgvest for zoning requirement_c for group housing standards related to your request
wilh NCDENR the following would apply:
Sectiozi 10-2103 (c)(2?:
(2) Group hvrcxtcrtg developiurua exceeding one-hundred My (150)
dwelling miss yhati psavida a Muluirnum of two (2) access points
connecting to the public strdat system, unless trafE"ie safety. limited
public street fronrQga, wrmunding dedelopmenL severe topography,
or other physical features prevent such a second connection.
Sectiau 10-2103 (G)(+1):
(4) The maximum length of a public or private dead-end strut ar
vehicular drive shall be eight hundred (800) ieet, All dead-end streurs
must intersect with an interconnected system of public streets or private
srreer t that allows for vehicular drive which exceeds a length of two
hundred (200) feet draft be required to pmviie a vehicular corn-;mound
with a minimum interior curb radius of thirty (30) feet.
A copy of the page from the code referent;NS these two items is included.
The planning Dcpameru reviews group housing site plans to insuro that the health, safety and welfare ai
the public is pxo=-tad. The vehicular cirmladoh paaem for this 5tte plan is itrportant to supply TiYe,
police and emergency access to a multi-family complex with the potentl al of n aving more than 200
dwelling units.
If I can be of any further assistdRce in yayx rcvlcw of this, roqursted ctossitig of the Neuse River Basin
Buffer, I can be eawhecl at 990-3369.
Si=rely,
Christine Dwsis
L7
City of Ralaigh
Pls=in$ Department
enclosure
01/11/33 14:06 $919 828 7068 PATON-ZUCCHINO
IQ003/ UUJ
8/98 . PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT § 10-2103
the will of any dwelling except for individual
driveways which are provided to serve the
individual dwelling unit only.
Crass refemnee: Transitional prntccrive yards nee re•
quited for developments with densities of seven (7) or more
dwelling units per acre. § 1Q-2082.9•
Maw
eTAUT
nes?oences
ILI
I
l
is
CT-=
PERIMETER YARD SETBACKS
CNecs
(c) Streets/Sidewalks.
(1) Group housing developments exceeding twenty
(20) acres or exceeding two hundred (200) dwell-
ing units shall provide at least one (1) public
through street in a location determined by the
City's Department of Transportation to assure con-
tinuity of the public vrreer system, except in
instances where the City approving authority de-
termines that such public through street will serve
no purpose due to the existing or proposed street
pattern, traffic flow or traffic volume. The City
may also require additional public through streets
for the provision of emergency services such as
police and fire protection, or to provide alternate
circulation at congested or critical intersections.
]V,' (2) Group housing developments exceeding one hun-
dred fifty (150) dwelling runts shall provide a
minimum of two (2) access points connecting to
the public street system, unless traffic safety,
limited public street frontage, surrounding devel-
opment, severe topography, or other physical fea-
tures prevent such a second connection.
(3) The main circulation route(s) throughout the de-
velopment, as determined by the Transportation
Director and Fire Marshall, shall be constructed to
the minimum privatc street standards specified by
the City of Raleigh's Streets, Sidewalks, and
Driveway Access Handbook- Other private vehic-
ular drives shall maintain a minimum centerline
radius of fifty (50) feet.
(4) The maximum length of a public or privatc dnad-
end street or vehicular drive shall be eight hundred
(800) feet- All dead-end streets must intersect with
an interconnected system of public streets or pri-
vate stroors that allows vehicular access to the
dead-end street from at least two (2) directions. A
private dead-end street or vehicular drive which
exceeds a length of two hundred (200) feet shall be
required to provide a vehicular turn-around with a
minimum interior curb radius of thirty (30) feet.
(5) Private streets and drives located within two hun-
dred (200) fcrt of any dwelling tacit or recreational
facility shall provide parking, either perpendicular
or parallel, on both sides of the private street or
drive, provided that, a minimum travel portion,
exclusively of parking, of twenty (20) feet for
two-way traffic and sixteen (16) feet for one-way
traffic shall be maintained.
(6) All parking bays, other than those directly along
private srracrs, shall be clearly separated from the
privatc street by a minimum five-foot wide planted
srreer.protective yard in accordance with the stan-
dards of §10-2082.5(c).
(7) Group {rousing developmenrs exceeding a total of
two hundred (200) dwelling units may be required
to submit a traffic impact analysis to the Cin's
Transportation Department, and comply with all
rccommanded intersection and traffic control im-
I MfF-7
State of North Carolina
Department of Environment
and Natural Resources
Division of Water Quality
James B. Hunt, Jr., Governor
Wayne McDevitt, Secretary
A. Preston Howard, Jr., P.E., Director
NC ENR
NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES
December 22, 1998
DWQ Project # 980699
Wake County
CERTIFIED MAIL
RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED
Realty Services Group Inc.
8641 Baypine Road
Suite 1
Jacksonville, NC 32256
Dear Sirs:
The Division of Water Quality has reviewed your plans for the discharge of fill material located at
Thistledown Apartments in Wake County for road construction. Insufficient evidence is present in our files to
conclude that your project must be built as planned in waters and/or wetlands in accordance with 15A NCAC 2H
.0506. Therefore, unless modifications of the proposal are made as described below, we will have to move
toward denial of your 401 Certification as required by 15A NCAC 2H .0507(e) and will place this project on hold
as incomplete until we receive this additional information, we are requesting (by copy of this letter) that the U.S.
Army Corps of Engineers place your project on administrative hold.
Please provide us with information supporting your position that states your project must be constructed
as planned and that you have no practicable alternative to placing fill in these waters and/or wetlands.
Specifically can you construct your development without this road crossing? Your site plan submittal does not
explain this need and should be accompanied by a letter from the City of Raleigh. Also the linear feet of stream
to be impacted by culvert and riprap is not listed in the application. Finally you will need to address stormwater
management for this site in order to ensure sheetflow. We suggest that use of dry detention basins upslope of the
protected stream buffer would be sufficient. Also all sediment and erosion control measures must be placed
outside the stream buffer. Also please identify which Nationwide Permit you plan to use to construct this road
crossing. Any documentation such as maps and narrative that you can supply to address alternative designs for
your project may be helpful in our review of your 401 Certification. Also this project will require compensatory
mitigation if the stream being impacted is a perennial stream as described in 15A NCAC 2H .0506(h). Your
mitigation proposal is insufficient because this issue was not addressed.
Please respond with three weeks of the date of this letter by sending a copy of this information to me
and one copy to Mr. Danny Smith Raleigh Regional Office at 3800 Barrett Drive Raleigh NC 27609. If we do
not hear from you in three weeks, we will assume that you no longer want to pursue this project and we will
consider the project as withdrawn. I can be reached at 919-733-1786 id you have any questions.
TJnorney
cc: Raleigh DWQ Regional Office
Wilmington Office Corps of Engineers
Central Files
John Domey
Raleigh Field Office Corps of Engineers
Ken Thompson; Paton/Zucchino 980699.nty
Wetlands/401 Unit 4401 Reedy Creek Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27607
Telephone [phone] FAX # [phone]
An Equal Opportunity Affirmative Action Employer 50% recycled/10% post consumer paper
1
ItIVIUhA14UWV1
d: John Dorney Regional Contact:
Non-Discharge Branch WQ Supervisor:
Date:
;UBJECT: WETLAND STAFF REPORT AND RECOMMENDATIONS
Facility Name Thistletown Apt. Site
Iroject Number 98 0699
Recvd From APP
Received Date 11/4/98 Recvd By Region
Project Type building apartments
County Wake
County2
Region Raleigh
,ertificates Stream
Class Acres Feet
'ermit Wetland Wetland Wetland Stream
Type Type Impact Score Index Prim. Supp. Basin Req. Req.
NBR r-- O Y TN ?- 27-34-(7) I ` NSW 030402 F ?-
r- O _Y0 N r_7- F-?
litigation
MitigationType
Wetland
Type Acres Feet
Is Mitigation required? Q Y OO N
Did you request more info? Q Y O N
Is Wetland Rating Sheet Attached? Q Y O N
Have Project Changes/Conditions Been Discussed With Applicant? Q Y O N
Recommendation: O Issue O Issue/Cond O Deny
Recommend : Ask them to provide DWQ with a letter fMn the City of Raleigh detailing why
they need the Road crossing.
Also, they did not provide linear footage of stream impact. That is, I do not know the crossing
and toe slope/rip rap fill width. (The,,y? ssho-uld clearly address in writing)
7t/ Z?
77/ 7L
Jb?
John, should we consider requirementing storm water mgt. plans for all projects in the Neuse
Basin...? This would affect a "real effort" to achieve sheet flow out side of zone 2... If this storm
water requirement is satisfactory apartment complexes (commercial beast that they are) warrant
this stipulation in their 401 Certification.... I know, we have been through this before ... just
thought I make another stab at it.
k
t
4
?' N 0 V
W LANDS GROUP
November 3, 190WER QUALITY
John Dorney
North Carolina Division of Water Quality
4401 Reedy Creek Road
Raleigh, NC 27626
RE: 98-0699
Neuse River Riparian Buffer Rule
Pre-Construction Notification
Dear John:
PATON/ZUCCHINO
.1 ksI?M ll?'. ?k.
Attached you will find a new application and six copies of the cover letter and application that
was mailed to you on August 7, 1998. It appears the original application was mailed to the wrong
address. I hope these copies are satisfactory.
Thank you for your time. Should you have any. questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
it
Ken Thompson, RLA, ASLA
Paton/Zucchino & Associates, P.A.
Attachments: Application (6 copies)
KT/jk
Gorman 1 O.doc
Land Planning
Landscape Architecture
Suite 101
1001 Wade Avenue
lWei-h. N.C. 27605
919-839-3620
FAX [phone]
Nvwls.paton-ml cehino.com
entail:lrzatl)?)aton-zucchino.com
00 J I -- c??,:.
PATON/ZUCCHINO
& _ASSOCIATES. P.=A.
August 7, 1998
John Dorney
North Carolina Division of Water Quality
P.O. Box 29535
Raleigh, NC 27626-0533
RE: NBR-RRO-24
Neuse River Riparian Buffer Rule
Pre-Construction Notification
Dear John:
Attached you will find the original application for the above referenced project along with six
copies.
Due to the stream configuration and existing manholes that we are required to connect to by the
City of Raleigh, we are forced to have two sanitary sewer stream crossings. We have tried to
minimize the impact to the buffers to the best of our abilities.
We are also required to meet a vehicular access requirement by the City of Raleigh. Due to the
number of units and the length of the private road, we cannot have only one access point to the
part of the project located between the stream and I-40. Therefore we have been forced to incur a
road crossing. We have tried to limit the impact of this crossing as best as possible.
Thank you for your time. Should you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Sincerely,
Ken Thompson, RLA ASLA
Paton/Zucchino & Associates, P.A.
Attachments: Application (7 copies)
Land Planning
I.all(kcape _ArchltPrtUTIV
Suit<• l(IJ
KT/jk
100 1 'kode Avenue
Gorman3
Pah•igh. N.C. 2:605
919-8,34-810,20
F-\ X 919411213- 0
?c?s?c.l,atnn-•r.u,•rhiru,.r„m
4.11,ail:pZiOTIiatoll-ZlIvvhino.r„nI

DWQ ID:
NBR-RRO-24 CORPS ACTION ID:
N/A
NATIONWIDE PERMIT REQUESTED (PROVIDE NATIONWIDE PERMIT #)
N/A jd(Nw\?k1`A
PRE-CONSTRUCTION NOTIFICATION APPLICATION
FOR NATIONWIDE PERMITS THAT REQUIRE:
1) NOTIFICATION TO THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS
2) APPLICATION FOR SECTION 401 CERTIFCATION
3) COORDINATION WITH THE NC DIVISION OF COASTAL MANAGEMENT
SEND THE ORIGINAL AND (1) COPY OF THIS COMPLETED FORM TO THE APPROPRIATE
FIELD OFFICE OF THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS (SEE AGENCY ADDRESSES SHEET). SEVEN
(7) COPIES MUST BE SENT TO THE NC DIVISION OF WATER
QUALITY, ATTN• JOHN DORNEY, 4401 REEDY CREEK ROAD,
RALEIGH, NC 27607. PLEASE_ PRINT OR TYPE.
1. OWNER'S NAME
Realty Services Group, Inc.
2. MAILING ADDRESS:
CITY:
8641 Baypine Road, Suite 1
SUBDIVISION NAME
STATE: FL ZIP CODE:
Jacksonville
32256
PROJECT LOCATION ADDRESS, INCLUDING SUBDIVISION NAME (IF DIFFERENT FROM
MAILING ADDRESS ABOVE):
Thistledown Drive, east of Gorman Road
3. TELEPHONE NUMBER: (HOME)
(WORK) [phone]
4. IF APPLICABLE: AGENT'S NAME OR RESPONSIBLE CORPORATE OFFICIAL, ADDRESS,
PHONE NUMBER:
Agent: Paton/Zucchino & Associates P.A.
1001 Wade Ave., Suite 101, Raleigh, NC 27605
Attn: Ken Thompson [phone]_
5. LOCATION OF WORK (PROVIDE A MAP, PREFERABLY A COPY OF USGS TOPOGRAPHIC
MAP OR AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHY WITH SCALE):
COUNTY:
Wake
- NEAREST TOWN:
Raleigh
See attached USGS topographic map.
SPECIFIC LOCATION (INCLUDE ROAD NUMBERS, LANDMARKS, ECT.) On Thistledown
Road beginning at the intersection of Thistledown Road and Trailwood
to the creek crossing on Thistledown. The site is bordered on the
south by I-40.
-6. IMPACTED OR NEAREST STREAM/RIVER: Present but not named
RIVER BASIN: Neuse
7a. IS PROJECT LOCATED NEAR WATER CLASSIFIED AS TROUT, TIDAL SALTWATER, (SA),
HIGH QUALITY WATERS (HQW), OUTSTANDING RESOURSE WATERS (ORW), WATER
SUPPLY (WS-I OR WS-II)? YES ( ) NO ( X ) IF YES, EXPLAIN:
7b. IS THE PROJECT LOCATED WITHIN A NORTH CAROLINA DIVISION OF COASTAL
MANAGEMENT AREA OF ENVIROMENTAL CONCERN (AEC)? YES ( ) NO ( X )
7c. IF THE PROJECT IS LOCATED WITHIN A COASTAL COUNTY (SEE PAGE 7 FOR LIST OF
COASTAL COUNTIES), WHAT IS THE LAND USE PLAN (LUP) DESIGNATION?
8a. HAVE ANY SECTION 404 PERMITS BEEN PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED FOR USE ON THIS
PROJECT? YES ( ) NO ( ) IF YES, PROVIDE ACTION I.D. NUMBER OF PREVIOUS
PERMIT AND ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION (INCLUDE PHOTOCOPY OF 401
CERTIFICATION): N/A
8b. ARE ADDITIONAL PERMIT REQUESTS EXPECTED FOR THIS PROPERTY IN THE
FUTURE? YES ( ) NO ( ) IF YES, DESCRIBE ANTICIPATED WORK: N/A
9a. ESTIMATED TOTAL NUMBERS OF ACRES IN TRACT OF LAND: 25 AC
9b. ESTIMATED TOTAL NUMBER OF ACRES OF WETLANDS LOCATED ON PROJECT SITE:
N/A
10a. NUMBER OF ACRES OF WETLANDS IMPACTED BY THE PROPOSED PROJECT BY:
FILLING: N/A

FLOODING: N/A

DRAINAGE : N/A
EXCAVATION:
N/A
OTHER: N/A
TOTAL ACRES TO BE IMPACTED:
N/A
10b. (1) STREAM CHANNEL TO BE IMPACTED BY THE PROPOSED PROJECT (IF
RELOCATED, PROVIDE DISTANCE BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER RELOCATION:
LENGTH BEFORE: N/A FT AFTER: N/A U b h FT
WIDTH BEFORE (based on normal high water contours): N/A FT
AVERAGE DEPTH BEFORE: N/A FT AFTER: N/A FT
(2) STREAM CHANNEL IMPACTS WILL RESULT FROM: (CHECK ALL THAT APPLY)
OPEN CHANNEL RELOCATION: PLACEMENT OF PIPE IN CHANNEL:
CHANNEL EXCAVATION: COONSTRUCTION OF A DAMIFLOODING:
OTHER: Sanitary sewer crossing
11. IF CONSTRUCTION OF A POND IS PROPOSED, WHAT IS THE SIZE OF THE WATERSHED
DRAINING TO THE POND? N/A WHAT IS THE EXPECTED
POND SURFACE AREA?
12. DISCTIPTION OF PROPOSED WORK INCLUDING DISCUSSION OF TYPE OF MECHANICAL
,,EQUIPMENT TO BE USED? (ATTACH PLANS; 81/2 BY 11 DRAWINGS ONLY)
txcayate trench to Dlare 8" piihlir sanitary CPwpr main Der rity
requirements. Place storm pipe on bed of channel at road cross
and rip rap up and down stream then fill over pipe. Equipment
used: backhoe, tamper, and bulldozer.
13. PURPOSE OF PROPOSED WORK: To provide sanitary sewer service to
subject property as required by the City of Raleigh, and 1 road -
crossing to provide access to the site.
14. STATE REASONS WHY IT IS BELIEVED THAT THIS ACTIVITY MUST BE CARRIED OUT IN
WETLANDS (INCLUDE ANY MEASURES TAKEN TO MINIMIZE WETLAND IMPACTS)
N/A
15. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO CONTACT THE US FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE AND/OR
NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERIVE REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF ANY FEDERALY
LISTED OR PROPOSED FOR LISTING ENDANGERED OR THREATENED SPECIES OR
CRITICAL HABITAT IN THE PERMIT AREA THAT MAY BE AFFECTED BY THE PROPOSED
PROJECT. DATE CONTACTED: N/A
16. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO CONTACT THE STATE HISTORIC PRESERVATION OFFICER
(SHPO) REGARDING THE PRESENCE OF HISTORIC PROPERTIES IN THE PERMIT AREA
WHICH MAY BE AFFECTED BY THE PROPOSED PROJECT. DATE CONTACTED
N/A
17. DOES THE PROJECT INVOLVE AN EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC FUNDS OT THE USE OF
PUBLIC (STATE) LAND? YES ( ) NO ( X ) (IF NO, GO TO 16)
a. IF YES, DOES THE PROJECT REQUIRE PREPERATION OF AN ENVIRONMENTAL
DOCUMENT PURUANT TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE NORTH CAROLINA
ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ACT? YES( ) NO ( )
b. IF YES, HAS THE DOCUMENT BEEN REFIEWED THROUGH THE NORTH CAROLINA
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION STATE CLEARINGHOUSE YES ( ) NO ( )
IF ANSWER 17b IS YES, THEN SUBMIT APPROPRIATE DOCUMENTATIONFROM THE STATE
CLEARINGHOUSE WITH THE NORTH CAROLINA ENVIRONMENTAL POLICY ACT.
QUESTIONS REGARDING THE STATE CLEARINGHOUSE REVIEW PROCESS SHOULD BE
DIRECTED TO MS. CHRYS BAGGETT, DIRECTOR STATE CLEARINGHOUSE, NORTH
CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, 116 WEST JONES STREET, RALEIGH,
NORTH CAROLINA 27603-8003, TELEPHONE [phone].
18. THE FOLLOWING ITEMS SHOULD BE INCLUDED WITH THIS APPLICATION IF PROPOSED
ACTIVITY INVOLVES THE DISCHARGE OF EXCAVATED OF FILL MATERIAL INTO
WETLANDS:
a. WETLAND DELINEATION MAP SHOWING ALL WETLANDS, STREAMS, LAKES, AND
PONDS ON THE PROPERTY (FOR NATIONWIDE PERMIT NUMBERS 14, 18, 21, 26, 29,
AND 38). ALL STREAM (INTERMITTENT AND PERMANENT) ON THE PROPERTY
MUST BE SHOWN ON THE MAP. MAP SCALES SHOULD BE 1 INCH EQUALS 50 FEET
OF 1 INCH EQUALS 100 FEET OF THEIR EQUIVALENT.
b. IF AVAILABLE, REPRESENTATIVE PHOTOGRAPH OF WETLANDS TO BE IMPACTED
BY PRODUCT.
c. IF DELINEATION WAS PERFORMED BY A CONSULTANT, INCLUDE ALL DATA
SHEETS RELEVANT TO THE PLACEMENT OF THE DELINEATION LINE.
d. ATTACH A COPY OF THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN IF REQUIRED.
e. WHAT IS LAND USE OF SURROUNDING PROPOERTY?
A combination of residential to the north and east, with
commercial to the west and I-40 to the south.
f. IF APPLICABLE, WHAT IS PROPOSED METHOD OF SEWAGE DISPOSAL?
Public gravity sanitary sewer
SIGNED AND DATED AGENT AUTHORIZATION LETTER, IF APPLICABLE.
NOTE: WTLANDS OR WATERS OF THE US MAY NOT BE IMPACTED PRIOR TO:
I) ISSUANCE OF A SECTION 404 CORPS OF ENGINEERS PERMIT,
2) EITHER THE ISSUANCE OR WAIVER OF A 401 DIVISION OF WATER QUALITY
CERTIFICATION, AND
3) (IN THE TWENTY COASTAL COUNTIES ONLY), A LETTER FROM THE NORTH
CAROLINA DIVISION OF COASTAL MANAGEMENT STATING THE PROPOSED
ACTIVITY IS CONSISTENT WITH THE NORTH CAROLINA COASTAL
MANAGEMENT PROGRAM,
ENT" S S N URE DATE
40NER'Sl'
(AGENT'S SIGNATURE VALID ONLY
IF AUTHORIZATION LETTER FROM
THE OWNER IS PROVIDED).

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Paton/Zucchino & Associates, P.A.
JAMES B. HUNTJ*, 101 Wade Avenue Suite 101
-'GOWItNoR Raleigh, North Carolina
27605
a
:.:WAYN[MCDEVITT Subject:
sf.CR[TARY
r
NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES
RALEIGH REGIONAL OFFICE
July 17, 1998

Thistledown Apartment Site
NBR RRO-24
Neuse Basin Rules
Wake County 9 t$06,9 9
Dear Mr. Thompson:
This letter is written in regards to the site plans received by the Raleigh Regional Office
on July 13, 1998 and referenced as NBR RRO-24. On April 23, 1998, I met with you and Mr.
Michael Latener on site to conduct an evaluation of the water bodies present on this tract. As a
result of the site visit, it was determined that the two water bodies present (which join into one
main stream) are subject to the Neuse River Riparian Buffer Rules (15 A NCAC 2B .0233).
As you know the Neuse Buffer Rules: Neuse River Basin: Nutrient Sensitive Waters
Management Strategy; Protection and Maintenance of Existing Riparian Areas, Administrative
Code T15A:02B.0233 state the following:
".0233-Existing riparian areas shall be protected and maintained in accordance with Sub-
Items (3)(a)-(e) of this Rule on all sides of surface waters in the Neuse River Basin.
F'
' As we discussed, the riparian buffer must be protected in two zones.
(a) "Zone 1 is intended to be undisturbed forest....Zone 1 begins at the upper edge of
the active channel of the water body or the mean high water line and extends landward a
W distance of 30 feet, measured horizontally on a line perpendicular to the waterbody..
Forest vegetation of any width that exists in Zone 1 on the effective date of this Rule
.>.>... ,_ must be preserved and maintained."

(b) "Zone 2 begins at the outer edge of Zone 1 and extends landward a minimum of
20 feet as measured horizontally on a line perpendicular to the waterbody. The combined
minimum width of Zones 1 and 2 shall be 50 feet on all sides of the waterbody.

?s
g Vegetation in Zone 2 shall consist a dense
ground cover composed of herbaceous or
woody species which provides for diffusion and infiltration of runoff and filtering of
,.? . x pollutants.

3600 BARRETT DRIVE, SUITE 101, RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA 27600

• PHONE [phone] FAX 61 D-571-4716
AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY /AFFIRMATIVE ACTION EMPLOYER-50% RECYCLED/10% POST-CONSUMER PAPER

Page Two
Thistledown
Neuse Buffer
The plans and maps that you have provided indicate the location of the water bodies that
are to be protected under this rule and delineate the fifty foot protection boundary riparian buffer.
This meets the requirements of the Neuse Buffer Rule.
As you indicated in your letter submitted with the plans, this project will require three
stream crossings. Two for sanitary sewer and one for a road. These stream crossing are subject
to further approval in that you must prove that there is no practical alternative to the crossings.
In order to accomplish that, you will need to submit an Application for Pre-Construction
Notification to the Division of Water Quality Wetlands/401 Unit. As a part of this you must
show that the proposed project cannot be accomplished in a manner that would have less impact
on the riparian area, maximize nutrient removal, and minimize impacts to water quality. This
application should be sent to:
John Dorney
DWQ/Wetlands/401 Unit
4401 Reedy Creek Road
Raleigh, N.C. 27607
919-733-1786
Thank you for your attention to this matter and if you have any questions or need
additional information please contact me at 919-571-4700.
Sincerely,
Steve Mitche I
Environmental Scientist
cc: RRO Files
John Dorney
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