To Dan Sams_refute pro-quarry claims_2020 07 14

July 14, 2020
Dan Sams
Engineering Supervisor
Division of Energy, Mineral and Land Resources
North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality
Dear Mr. Sams,
I am writing today to again ask that you deny Wake Stone's Triangle Quarry permit modification request which
includes creating an entirely new pit on a small tract of land called Odd Fellows (public land), further decreasing
the buffers on the existing Triangle Quarry (private land), building a bridge over Crabtree Creek (which further
affects buffers), and many other negative things.
The permit should be denied as it has significant adverse effect on the purposes of a publicly owned park, forest,
or recreation area of which Umstead State Park meets all 3 criteria.
Please note, we are not against quarries. We are just against quarries on public land that is adjacent to a public
state park .... and land that is separate from the current quarry site (on private land) by a sensitive creek.
I think about 235 people signed up to speak at the public hearing. I think 120 or so actually spoke. At the hearing
on 23/Jun/2020, Mr. Bratton was the only pro -quarry speaker. At the hearing on 7/Jul/2020, I think there were
only 11 pro -quarry speakers. So, in total, only 12 people spoke up for the quarry. Not a very good percentage for
the pro -quarry side.
Of note, the people that spoke in favor of the quarry provided very superficial reasons for their support. I would
like to refute these (well, at least the ones I was able to jot down while trying to juggle work and listening to the
hearing on 7/Jul/2020). These superficial claims speak to the validity of the permit modification application. Many
of the examples given in support the Triangle Quarry were about Wake Stone's Knightdale Quarry. Well,
comparing the Knightdale Quarry to the Triangle Quarry is like comparing apples and oranges. These are two very
different entities. If all Wake Stone can do is say how wonderful the Knightdale Quarry is, then it is obvious that
there is not much good to say about the Triangle Quarry.
Please refer to Item #1 at the end of this letter: Let's look at the Knightdale Quarry. That land parcel is 496 acres,
over two times the size of the Triangle Quarry. The pit on the Knightdale Quarry is about 100 acres per Google
Earth. So, only 1/5 of that parcel is quarry pit, leaving a good bit of land that can serve as buffer. Even if the pit
has doubled in size, the pit is only 2/5 of the parcel. Wake Stone owns the adjacent 132-acre parcel. That parcel is
mostly forested. In addition, Wake Stone owns another 156 acres in an area where the pit is close to Forestville
Road. Most of that acreage is forested. So, Wake Stone has created a huge pseudo buffer of privately owned
FORESTED land around the Knightdale Quarry. By virtue of buying up the surrounding land, they have isolated the
Knightdale Quarry pit from the public. By using the distance feature on Google Earth, a big part of the Knightdale
Quarry has 1000' or more of mostly FORESTED private land buffer.
Please refer to Item #2 at the end of this letter: The current Triangle Quarry parcel is 219 acres of private land,
some of which is a narrow section along highway 1-40. The pit (per Google Earth) takes up about 1/3 to % of that
parcel. Please see the attached map. Both the pit and quarry operations are intimately close to the highly used
parking lots, picnic shelters, and trails of the Reedy Creek entrance of Umstead State Park (the historic African -
American only entrance during segregation). There is no pseudo buffer of private FORESTED land between the
Triangle Quarry and the public Park. The Triangle Quarry is directly abutted to a large portion of Umstead State
Park that is highly used. Thus, the Triangle Quarry is right in the face of the thousands of people that use the
public Park. A few folks claim they do not notice the Triangle Quarry, but the vast majority will say otherwise. A
quarry on Odd Fellows will be the same ... just at a different access point ... in the face of the thousands of people
that use public Park.
Let's look at a few of the pro -quarry claims now:
Page 1 of 11

Please refer to Item #3 at the end of this letter: In his 23/Jun/2020 public comment, Mr. Bratton indicated that he
has a letter from a homeowner that lived "only 400' from the active pit" and thought of Wake Stone as a good
neighbor. Per his 7/Jul/2020 letter to Ms. Wehner, Mr. Bratton indicated that this letter is from Ms. Debnam.
Wake Stone needs to substantiate this claim by making Ms. Debnam's letter public in its entirety. Per the Wake
County tax records, MARDA YVETTE DEBNAM owned a 0.38-acre lot with a small ranch home located at 6608
Forestville Road, Knightdale, NC. The tax value of this property was about $102,000 through 2019. Wake Stone
bought this property on 31/Jul/2019 for $450,000. They then demolished the home and appealed the tax value
down to $662. Why would a good neighbor pay well above retail value for a home and then tear it down? Why
would a company pay $450,000 for something that ends up being valued at $662? Why? Of note, on 26/Aug/19,
Ms. Marda Debnam purchased a home located at 4710 SLEEPY FALLS RUN, KNIGHTDALE NC 27545 for $312,000.
Please refer to Item #4 at the end of this letter: Mr. Bratton and a few others claimed that they operate the
Knightdale Quarry within 1500' of "hundreds of homes and businesses." Wake Stone needs to substantiate this
claim in public with time for public review and comment. Per Google Earth, I could only find about 80 homes and
business (including about 2/3 of the neighboring Village Squire Mobile Estates). This would make the claims by Mr.
Bratton and the others inaccurate.
They also indicated that none of the "hundreds" of homes and businesses have had any problems with the
Knightdale Quarry. Wake Stone needs to substantiate this claim in public with time for public review and
comment. Several of the pro -quarry speakers also said that there have not been any complaints against the
Triangle Quarry. Well, I just have to call BS on that. People have been complaining of dust, noise, run-off, etc. for
years, but either these complaints do not make it to a formal record or these complaints have not been made
public. The two recent public hearings included several hours of complaints. The documentary movie 400' down
points out issues with the Triangle Quarry (https://www.400feetdown.com/ ).
Please refer to Item #5 at the end of this letter: I myself have seen milky white run off in the Park. I was with Jean
Spooner on one occasion that she called to report the milky white run off issue. Wake Stone is for sure discharging
water into the park. As one example, look at the pond created by Wake Stone next to the Triangle Quarry. They
have installed a large black pipe that drains outside of one of their berms. Also, the dusty, milky water from both
sides of Star Lane (Wake Stone's driveway) drains into the Park. These discharges have created a pond outside of
the berm. This pond extends into Umstead State Park and has killed off some trees. From this pond, the water
drains along the border of Umstead into several small ponds that have been created by earthen dams. So, there
are for sure complaints against the Triangle Quarry. To say otherwise is not truthful and not ethical.
The Knightdale town representatives indicated that Wake Stone was a good neighbor because they donated land
for a park. Well, as noted earlier, Wake Stone bought up most of the land adjacent to the Knightdale Quarry, so
they have a lot of land to donate. There is absolutely no chance of any such benefit to the Triangle Quarry area as
the Triangle Quarry is bordered by highly used public land. If Knightdale officials like Wake Stone so much, then
Wake Stone should just continue to expand that quarry. Wake Stone has plenty of land adjacent to the Knightdale
Quarry as already noted.
Other claims include that Wake Stone supports the community and is a "true partner." Again, in Knightdale this is
probably true because the Knightdale Quarry is isolated from the public by the vast private FORESTED land around
the quarry parcel and because Wake Stone owns resources in that area to give away. This is not the case in the
Triangle Quarry area. In the case of the Triangle Quarry and a potential quarry pit on Odd Fellows (public land),
Wake Stone is taking from the community instead of giving back to the community. The Odd Fellows is on the
state park's critical acquisition list and a valid market value offer has been made to purchase the land for
incorporation into the state park system. In fact, Wake Stone's appraiser valued the land at about $2 million, but
the conservancy group that would purchase the land for the state park system valued the land at $6.4 million. We
the people highly value Odd Fellows and Umstead State Park! If Wake Stone were truly a community partner, they
would listen to the cries of the THOUSANDS of public voices, the majority of whom are calling to deny the Triangle
Quarry permit modification request and to re -instate the Sunset Clause. If Wake Stone pushes forward with this
new pit, they are for sure acting opposite of community partnership.
Please refer to Item #6 at the end of this letter: Another comment by a pro -quarry speaker was that increased
usage to Umstead is a sign there is no problem with the quarry. Hogwash. Park usage has increased due to the
population growth. Usage has grown in spite of the Triangle Quarry. The Triangle Quarry is a neighbor that we are
forced to tolerate. Reminder, the Triangle Quarry permit was initially and STRONGLY denied. It was only when the
Page 2 of 11

Sunset Clause was established that it was permitted. The public has tolerated the Triangle Quarry as there was a
defined and known end date in which we, the public, would be free of this bad neighbor. The growth in usage of
Umstead is a sign that more people are here, that there is more demand for forested recreation space, and it is a
sign that it is time for Wake Stone to leave the Triangle Quarry by 2031 per the Sunset Clause. The growth is a sign
that Wake Stone should go quarry their own land, not public land.
Another pro -quarry speaker commented that he wants to continue to work at the Triangle Quarry. Those quarry
jobs are no more important that the many recreation industry jobs and high-tech jobs that exist in this area due to
the ready access to forested recreation space. High tech jobs are high income jobs and people with high income
spend money in our area. They also need places to recreate after sitting at a desk for long hours. While recreation
industry jobs might not be high income jobs, the recreation industry is a big industry too and it creates tourism
which in turn supports other businesses. I work in the recreation industry and I'd like to keep my job! Just
because it is in the recreation industry does not make it any less important. There are other places to quarry.
There is not any more land next to our local state park.
One supporter urged us to compromise. Well, have Wake Stone leave 1,000 + feet of FORESTED buffer like they do
at the Knightdale Quarry! If they say impossible, then the Odd Fellows site is too small for a new quarry pit! Also,
have Wake Stone ensure that there are similar large (1,000'+) FORESTED buffers on the current Triangle Quarry
site. Mr. Bratton acknowledges that Odd Fellows is too small for a full quarry operation in his 7/Jul/2020 letter to
Ms. Wehner. Is this the motive for un-doing the Sunset Clause without notifying Umstead State Park and the
public? (That is an entirely different issue which will be addressed separate from this letter.)
Putting a quarry on a parcel of land deeded to public entities that the state park system has been wanting to buy
for decades greatly harms a unique and irreplaceable resource — Umstead State Park. There are for sure other
places to quarry. Wake Stone owns over 5,000 acres. There are probably also other places to quarry in Wake
County, like the land around the current Knightdale Quarry. Wake Stone should quarry something on their private
land, not on public land. As I said at the beginning of this document, we are not against quarries. We are just
against quarries on public land that is adjacent to a highly used public state park — quarries that are in the face of
the thousand of citizens that use the area.
Please deny Wake Stone's permit modification request on the Triangle Quarry ... and please do so without chance of
appeal.
Sincerely,
Digitally signed by
Natalie Le Natalie Lew
Date: 2020.07.14
10:03:07-04'00'
-Natalie Lew
PO Box 80035
Raleigh, NC 27623
Page 3 of 11

Item #1:
Wake Stone owns a whole lot of FORESTED land around the Knightdale Quarry. The total opposite is true
regarding the Triangle Quarry. Everything outlined in red is owned by Wake Stone. The parcels labeled A and B
were owned by Wake Stone until 2018 when the transferred the land to the city of Knightdale.
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Page 4 of 11

Item #2:
The Triangle Quarry is surrounded by highly used public land. The Odd Fellows is deeded to the public and has
been used by the Boy Scouts for decades. A quarry pit on Odd Fellows and continued use of the Triangle Quarry
past 2031, the agreed upon end date, harms Umstead State Park.
- IN
Page 5 of 11

Item #3:
6608 Forestville Road, Knightdale, NC. This is the home that is within 400' of the Knightdale Quarry pit that Mr.
Bratton referred to in his 23/Jun/2020 public comment. Wake Stone bought this home (on a 0.38-acre lot) in 2019
for $450,00 and subsequently demolished it. Wake Stone appealed the tax value in early 2020 and it was then
revalued for only $662 (yes, < $1,000). Why does a company spend almost half a million dollars on something that
ends up being valued at less than one thousand dollars? If Wake Stone is such a good neighbor, then someone
should still be living in this house.
Photograph Date: 312/2013
Page 6 of 11

Item #4:
What is within 1500' of the Knightdale? Per Google Earth, there seems to be < 100 homes and businesses, not
"hundreds" of homes and business as Mr. Bratton and a few others claimed.
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Page 7 of 11

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Item #5 (continued):
Page 9 of 11

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Item #6:
This is where Town of Cary Parking Lot, Black Creek Greenway, and the Old Reedy Creek Road/Greenway meet.
Picture is taken from narrow bridge over 1-40. The Town of Cary Parking Lot is full, so people park on the side of
the greenway. Adults, youth, and children use this area. It is not a place for a quarry or quarry related trucks and
traffic— not for any amount of time. This is a park user highway. A recreation hub. Central Park. The parking lot
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