Concerns raised regarding the public hearings

Date: July 16, 2020
To: Director Brian Wrenn, Division of Energy, Minerals and Land Resources (DEMLR), NCDEQ
Engineering Supervisor and Hearing Officer Dan Sams, DEMLR, NCDEQ
From: Hwa Huang, Raleigh, NC
Re: Comments on public hearings held for Wake Stone Corp., Application for Modification of
Mining Permit — Triangle Quarry Mining Permit No. 92-10
Dear Director Brian Wrenn & Hearing Officer Dan Sams,
It is with much appreciation that the people have the chance to engage in public hearing for two
different days. Of the 236 people who have signed up to speak, 78 spoke on the June 23
hearing, and 59 on July 7. That means there were 99 people who did not get to speak. While
the hearings were well -attended, there were concerns brought to my attention by some of the
registered speakers pertaining to the accessibility of the virtual hearings for registered speakers
and the attendees. I wish to take this opportunity to bring these concerns to the attention of the
DEQ in hope that public access to future hearings can and will improve.
1. Toward the beginning when registration for speakers was posted, there were no confirmation
messages sent to people who signed up until either at noon on the day of the hearing on June
23, or in the evening before the hearing on July 7. It would have been better if a confirmation
letter was sent as soon as registration was made, so that people know for sure that their sign -in
went through to the DEQ.
2. Not only the speakers need access, but the attendees who are only coming in to listen do,
too. While the speakers got the email directly from the office with login instructions for the
hearing, for both hearings DEQ's website put in the incorrect call in the information for
attendees. For the first hearing, they put in the wrong phone number ("145" instead of "415"
area code). See screenshot below where the wrong phone number was put out to the public.

C 6 deq.nc.gov/news/press-releases/2020/05/22/pubric hearing wake -stone -quarry appllcatian modification -update
Robert Johnson
robert.j ohnson ®ncrlenr.gov
The North Carolina Department of EnvironmentaL Quality's Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land 919-707-3645
Resources (DEMLR) is seeking community feedback on Wake Stone Corporation's application
for modification to Permit 92-10. Based on current guidance to prevent the spread of COVID-19
and limits on the size of public gatherings under Phase 2, the public hearing on this application
will be held digitally on June 23, 2020.
The public is invited to participate online or Listen by phone. Speakers will be asked to register
in advance.
WHEN: Tuesday, June 23, 2020, 6:00 PM
Participants can join the meeting starting at 5:45 PM
ONLINE: Cisco WebEx Link:
https tinederrits.webex.com/nedenritslonst geJgLjg[Jp7
MTID=ea3aCd7D507b450041459a2a5d8276118 G
Meeting Number (Access Code): 617 499 551
Meeting Password: DE0123
PHONE:
Cisco WebEx by Phone:.[phone] US TOLL
Meeting number (access code): 517 449 551
`If you wish to speak at the digital public hearing, you must register, provide the required
information, and follow instructions on ways to join the public hearing. Registration must be
completed by 12:00 PM on June 23. 2020. To register, please click the following Link:
https:/Jforms.office.cor Pages ResponsePage.aspx4idAIF2etC5mkSFw-
zCbNftGeTOwlSeDIRlhOMc0l6ad6VUQjVROFJNNE9BMV(JMOIORjdEVUtWUzRSOi44 L
`If you have technical difficulties, an automated voicemak will be set up from June 23 to July 3
to receive your verbal comments: 919-707-9209 (Please state your name before commenting.)
To submit a public comment or obtain additional information concerning the hearing, email
[e-mail] or write:
Judy Wehner
Assistant State Mining Specialist
Division of Energy, Mineral and Land Resources
1612 Mail Service Center
For the second hearing, they put in the wrong access code ("004" instead of "044", which their
staff member later revealed in the middle of the hearing on July 7, 2020, as the mistake). See
the screenshot below for where the access code was erroneously publicized as tt004".

A deq.nc.gov/news/press-releases/2020/06/24/wake-stone-public-hearing-continuation
Wake Stone Public Hearing Continuation
Raleigh, INC
Contact Information
Jun 24, 2020
Robert Johnson
rDleltJohnsan n rcdery you
The Division of Energy. Mineral, and Land Resources (DEMLR) will continue the digital public [phone]
hearing on a permit modification for Wake Stone Corporation on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 to
accommodate pre -registered speakers.
Since the number of registered speakers exceeded the allotted time during the June 23 public
hearing, the Division Director determined it necessary to hold a second day of the digital public
hearing to receive comments an the application. Based on current guidance to stop the spread
of COVID-19 and protect public health. members of the public can participate online or listen
via telephone.
The public is invited to participate online or listen by phone. Only previously registered speakers
will have the opportunity to speak.
WHEN: Tuesday. July 7, 2020. 9:00 a.m.
ONLINE: Cisco WebEx Link:
httpps�llncdenrits webex comfncdenrits/onstage(g.php?
MTID-e4a6e16eae92380lh8719666028816656 rd
Meeting Number (Access Code): 617 499 551
Meeting Password: DE0123
PHONE: [phone]
Access code- 161 004 6542
To submit public comment or obtain additional information concerning the hearing, email
ncminingprogram®ncdenr gov or write:
Judy Wenner
Assistant State Mining Specialist
Division of Energy. Mineral and Land Resources
1512 Mail Service Center
3. Scheduling the hearing during business hours, especially when so many speakers were
signed up. A hearing during business hours hinders attendance for those with 9-5 jobs. While it
is true that people still have the option to submit written comments to the DEQ, the conflict with
work requirements decreases participation in the public hearing and members of the public lose
the opportunity to hear evidence regarding reasons for denial or reasons for approval that are
submitted to DEQ. This impacts the public's ability to refute any assertions that are incorrect
during the 10 day follow-up period. Similar to how the NC DEQ provided a link to a recording
from the first day of public hearing, public comments should also be made available for public
review, to allow all public comments to be scrutinized for veracity.
4. At the second hearing, speakers were given a designated time. Many speakers did not
attend, so the hearing ran ahead of schedule. Instead of calling speakers during their
designated time slot, the staff at the public hearing pushed forward, calling most speakers hours
before their scheduled time. Many of these speakers would not have known if someone at the
hearing (friends, family, etc) was not at the hearing to notify them to call in. One of the speakers
has expressed frustration for being called in between 12:30 - 1 PM on July 7, when she was in

the middle of the road. She was under the impression that because she was assigned 3-4 PM,
that she could call in during that time frame. The meeting could have allowed for more people to
come in to speak if the staff members had paused in between time slots so as to allow people to
speak at their scheduled time.
5. Aside from the issue with the wrong numbers, many of the speakers had trouble connecting
to the webinar just from the technology standpoint. I have observed during both of the hearings
that there were many instances where even when the individual was signed on, they were
unable to be heard, case in point being when Dave Penrose was called multiple times during
the hearing on July 7 despite being at the meeting.
These were the issues I have observed during the hearings that I hope the DEQ will also
recognize as hindrance to true public participation, and need to be addressed for future
hearings. I hope things will continue to improve as the agency continues to engage with the
public as we are currently faced with the pandemic.
Sincerely,
Hwa Huang
Chair, Executive Committee
Sierra Club Capital Group