NCS000610_Amended Application_20220901

Young, Brianna A
From: Garcia, Lauren V
Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2022 11:19 AM
To: William Copeland; [e-mail]
Cc: Young, Brianna A; Carson, Brittany; Drew Blake; Justin Hasenfus
Subject: RE: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
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I have heard back from Drew Blake and Justin Hasenfus with Chatham County. I have copied every one here for ease of
access.
I am going to provide this explanation in written format so you can reference this as you navigate the situation. I am
using my understanding of the situation from Goldston Lumber and the information provided by Chatham County for
this:
In summary, Goldston Lumber would like to use what they are calling an existing/historic parking area at the front of
their parcel (9202) to park trailers. These trailers are being relocated from Zebra Recovery, which is under a Notice of
Violation from the Chatham County Local Program, for grading 3+ acres for commercial land use within a residential
neighborhood. Chatham County Zoning is requiring Zebra Recovery to remove all trailers from the lot and relocate them.
Chatham County has inspected the parking area at the Goldston Lumber facility and determined that in order for that
space to be used to park the trailers, the area "will require extensive grading to remove spoil asphalt, concrete rubble
and other debris that is currently on the property." The explanation Chatham County gave was that the referenced
trailers are tractor trailers and campers that are used as base camps and temporary housing in storm situations. Storage
of these trailers would require heavily compacted gravel. Chatham County has a delegated Erosion Control Program and
Post -Construction Stormwater Program. Based on the Chatham County local ordinances associated with these two
programs, 6" of packed 57 stone would require a stormwater permit (post -constructions stormwater permit) for
impervious surfaces if more than 20,000 sq feet (Chatham County Stormwater Requirements). Erosion control would
also be required at the same threshold (erosion control stormwater permit). It is my best guess that the compaction of
the stone required under the trailers has to do with a code, ordinance, or zoning requirement.

1) Goldston Lumber is referring to the area as an existing or historic parking/storage area and wanted to know why
they are not able to lay down a layer of stone and use the area as a parking lot. I believe the answer to this is
there is either a Chatham County code, ordinance or zoning requirement that dictates the specific conditions of
the parking lot the trailers are stored/parked on, that would trigger a requirement for the asphalt and other
materials to be removed before stone is laid down and compacted. Heck, there could even be some kind of
federal regulation if these are for FEMA. While the previous owner of the site may have used this area as trailer
storage, it appears that spoil asphalt and concrete debris may have been the medium used to park on.
2) Goldston Lumber asked why the parking area could not be covered under the NCG21/NCS Industrial Stormwater
Permit that is permitted by the State. We discussed this a bit over the phone, but the wood treatment that will
occur onsite is an industrial activity that falls under one of the categories regulated by the EPA. So, an industrial
stormwater permit is required for the site that authorizes the discharge of stormwater that may have come into
contact with the onsite industrial activity. It is completely separate from sediment and erosion control and post -
construction stormwater permitting
There are two other kinds of stormwater permits. Once is a construction stormwater permit, which deals with
sediment and erosion control. The other is a post -construction stormwater permit, which deals with stormwater
management. Chatham County has a delegated sediment and erosion control program, and their threshold for
land disturbance appears to be 25,000 square feet. This means if a land disturbing activity takes place where
greater than 25,000 sqft is impacted, an erosion control permit is required. The Chatham County ordinance does
require erosion control plan designers to be NC Licensed Professional Engineers, Landscape Architects, or NC
registered Surveyors. This is why Goldston Lumber was told they would need an engineer. Here is the link to
their erosion control webpage: https://www.chathamcountync.gov/government/departments-programs-i-
z/watershed-protection/erosion-control.
The Chatham County Stormwater Management Ordinance requires that post -construction stormwater plans be
submitted for projects that will exceed 20,OOOsgft of land disturbance. Here is the link to their Post -construction
webpage: https://www.chathamcountync.gov/government/departments-programs-i-z/watershed-
protection/stormwater.
So, to move forward with storing the trailers, it does appear that Goldston Lumber will need to contact an engineer to
get the erosion control and post -construction permitting underway... Hopefully, I didn't miss anything.
Let me know if you have any other questions,
Lauren
From: Garcia, Lauren V
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2022 5:47 PM
To: Carson, Brittany <[e-mail]>; William Copeland <[e-mail]>
Cc: Young, Brianna A <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
Hi All,
I am just copying everyone for ease of access. Brittany and Brianna, William Copeland is the owner of the company and
the email, but you are communicating with Shana and Lee Hankins.
Lee Hankins left me a voicemail that Chatham County is requiring him to have some kind of engineering for runoff
and/or stormwater permit and to see if they could roll that into our stormwater permit.

So, the NCG21/NCS permits are industrial stormwater permits that are required because of the EPA regulated industrial
activities taking place at Goldston Lumber. For this permit, if you just wanted to add a parking lot, you would just add it
and then update your maps.
Chatham County has a local erosion control program and they also have post -construction stormwater delegation in the
area where Goldston Lumber is located. The erosion control program deals with land disturbances. If you were to
clear/disturb greater than an acre of land, they would require you to have an erosion control permit. Since you are just
refreshing an existing gravel parking lot, I don't think this is what they are talking to you about.
I think what they want from you has to do with post -construction, which I have a limited understanding of. But basically,
depending on the watershed you are in there are rules for how the stormwater has to be handled because of things in
the Clean Water Act... Ex. Falls Lake has nutrient sensitivity requirements. We are not able to really help with this,
because this is all done through Chatham County's authority. But I may be able to help explain what it is they are asking
you for.
I'll be in the field tomorrow morning, but I will be in the office tomorrow afternoon if you need call.
Thanks,
Lauren
From: Carson, Brittany <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2022 1:52 PM
To: William Copeland <[e-mail]>
Cc: Garcia, Lauren V <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
Good afternoon William,
Thanks for reaching out. I'm copying Lauren Garcia with the Raleigh Regional Office because she may be able to answer
questions I can't. I don't believe adding gravel to your parking violates any part of NCG210000. Be sure to document it in
your SWPPP. The Regional Office can provide more technical guidance here.
As for the permitted area, the map originally sent in with the application showed a deeded area of about 20 acres. I'm
including a copy of one of the "Historical Files" from this permit's early days. You can see on pages 13 and 14 the areas
in question. If the parking lot you are referring to is on these original maps, then yes it is likely permitted, but if it is not
on these maps, then the Regional Office may have to look into whether it was originally permitted or not.
Brittany Carson
General Industrial Stormwater Permit Coordinator
Stormwater Program, Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources
N.C. Department of Environmental Quality
Phone: [phone]
From: William Copeland <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2022 1:36 PM
To: Carson, Brittany <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you verify. Send all suspicious email as an attachment to
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Good afternoon Brittany,

I guess the question I have on this general SW permit we have is, can we maintain an area that has been parking area
by putting some gravel on already existing gravel parking ? The area up by the office when you enter the property has
been parking for more than 10 years and we would like to put more #57 gravel to make it look better and more uniform
to park trailers up there. Can we do that ? And if so, can you send me the information that says we can maintain an
already existing parking area. We don't intend on changing, grading, digging, etc, just put #57 down.
I appreciate your help clarifying this for us. We are learning as we go.
Most Sincerely,
Shana Hankins
Office Manager
Goldston Lumber Supply, LLC
919-260-4201
On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 11:50 AM Young, Brianna A <[e-mail]> wrote:
Hello Shana,
At this time I do not need anything further from you. I have submitted the draft permit for internal peer review (this is
our standard process when issuing permits). Once the peer review is completed, the draft permit will be submitted for
public notice and you will receive a copy as well (to provide comments on if you wish). Unfortunately, I do not have a
timeline of when this peer review will be completed as it depends on staff availability.
In regards to your question on coverage under the general permit, I have copied Brittany Carson on this email as she is
the General Permits Coordinator and can better answer your question.
We appreciate your patience as we work through this new permit. Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you,
Brianna Young, MS (she/her/hers)
Industrial Individual Permits Coordinator
Stormwater Program
NC DEQ/ Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources (DEMLR)

[e-mail] (e-mail preferred)
919-707-3647 (office)
Mailing address: 1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1612
Physical address: 512 North Salisbury Street, Raleigh, NC 27604
Email correspondence to and from this address is subject to the North Carolina
Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Based on the current guidance to minimize the spread of COVID-19, the Department of Environmental Quality has adjusted
operations to protect the health and safety of the staff and public. Many employees are working remotely or are on staggered
shifts. Please check with the appropriate staff before visiting our offices, as we may be able to handle your requests by phone or
email. We appreciate your patience as we continue to serve the public during this challenging time.
From: William Copeland <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2022 11:38 AM
To: Young, Brianna A <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you verify. Send all suspicious email as an attachment to
Report Spam.
Good morning Brianna,
I was just wondering about the status of our individual permit application and if there was anything you may need
from us.
Also, I had a question about the general permit we currently have. Does that general permit cover the entire property
at 2304 S. Main Street? I saw on the original general permit it was approved for 2304 s. main st, and the lat and long
for 2304 s. main st were also on the approved permit. I'm just a bit confused about what that covers.
Thanks for all your help !

Most Sincerely,
Shana Hankins
Office Manager
Goldston Lumber Supply, LLC
On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 1:37 PM Young, Brianna A <[e-mail]> wrote:
Thank you for the clarification, I did not see the link within the email before. I will reach out with any questions after
I've reviewed everything.
Brianna Young, MS (she/her/hers)
Industrial Individual Permits Coordinator
Stormwater Program
NC DEQ/ Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources (DEMLR)
[e-mail] (e-mail preferred)
919-707-3647 (office)
Mailing address: 1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1612
Physical address: 512 North Salisbury Street, Raleigh, NC 27604
Email correspondence to and from this address is subject to the North Carolina
Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Based on the current guidance to minimize the spread of COVID-19, the Department of Environmental Quality has adjusted
operations to protect the health and safety of the staff and public. Many employees are working remotely or are on staggered

shifts. Please check with the appropriate staff before visiting our offices, as we may be able to handle your requests by phone or
email. We appreciate your patience as we continue to serve the public during this challenging time.
From: William Copeland <[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2022 1:32 PM
To: Young, Brianna A <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you verify. Send all suspicious email as an attachment to
Report Spam.
There were 3 attachments. One was only the first page because the scan of the entire 27 page application messed up
the first page. The entire application was on the 3rd attachment sent in the email as a google doc file, on Aug 17. The
other attachment was our drip pad certification. I have attached all of those again to this email.
AMENDED 2F 08 17 2022.p
Shana Hankins
Goldston Lumber Supply, LLC
On Wed, Aug 17, 2022 at 1:23 PM Young, Brianna A <[e-mail]> wrote:
Hi Shana,
Sorry for the quick follow-up. It looks like only 1 page of the amended application was attached. Could you please
send the full application?
Thank you,
Brianna Young, MS (she/her/hers)

Industrial Individual Permits Coordinator
Stormwater Program
NC DEQ/ Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources (DEMLR)
[e-mail] (e-mail preferred)
919-707-3647 (office)
Mailing address: 1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1612
Physical address: 512 North Salisbury Street, Raleigh, NC 27604
Email correspondence to and from this address is subject to the North Carolina
Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Based on the current guidance to minimize the spread of COVID-19, the Department of Environmental Quality has adjusted
operations to protect the health and safety of the staff and public. Many employees are working remotely or are on staggered
shifts. Please check with the appropriate staff before visiting our offices, as we may be able to handle your requests by phone or
email. We appreciate your patience as we continue to serve the public during this challenging time.
From: Young, Brianna A
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 1:21 PM
To: William Copeland <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
Shana,
Thank you for providing this information. I will reach out if I have any questions.
Thank you,

Brianna Young, MS (she/her/hers)
Industrial Individual Permits Coordinator
Stormwater Program
NC DEQ/ Division of Energy, Mineral, and Land Resources (DEMLR)
[e-mail] (e-mail preferred)
919-707-3647 (office)
Mailing address: 1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1612
Physical address: 512 North Salisbury Street, Raleigh, NC 27604
Email correspondence to and from this address is subject to the North Carolina
Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.
Based on the current guidance to minimize the spread of COVID-19, the Department of Environmental Quality has adjusted
operations to protect the health and safety of the staff and public. Many employees are working remotely or are on staggered
shifts. Please check with the appropriate staff before visiting our offices, as we may be able to handle your requests by phone or
email. We appreciate your patience as we continue to serve the public during this challenging time.
From: William Copeland <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2022 11:41 AM
To: Young, Brianna A <[e-mail]>
Subject: [External] GOLDSTON LUMBER SUPPLY AMENDED PERMIT APP
CAUTION: External email. Do not click links or open attachments unless you verify. Send all suspicious email as an attachment to
Report Spam.
Good Morning Brianna,

I have attached another amended (hopefully last one) permit application with map and drip pad
certification. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns, or if I need to send anything else.
Most Sincerely,
Shana Hankins
Goldston Lumber Supply LLC
AWR, LLC
AMENDED 2F 08 17 2022
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