SW5120101_Emails_20111007

Patterson, Robert
From:
Ventaloro, Julie
Sent:
Friday, October 07, 2011 9:41 AM
To:
Patterson, Robert
Subject:
RE: WS-II question
Follow Up Flag:
Follow up
Flag Status:
Flagged
I agree that all of the other Falls rules would still apply, but all I'm saying is that I think the USMP would satisfy rule 02B
,0281(4)(d).
Here's the town contact:
Melissa Hodges
Planner
Town of Butner
P.O. Box 270
Butner, NC 27509
[e-mail]
iulit; 1'cntaltry
Coordinator, Winer Supply Wmurshucl Protcetion Pruc;r<tm
NC DIviSilltl Of'1V;tter Qualit,V
IVet.lands & Stortnwater Branch
1G17.1'lail Service Center, 11;i with, NC 27699-1(;17
Phmiu: (919) 807-G-3170 ♦ Fnx: {S)1'?} 8C1; tiIfiE
NE1V 1Vebsite: htti)://portal.ncdenr.ory/web/wci/swp/ws/wswp
E-moil correspondence to and from this address moy be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Low and may be disclosed to
third parties.
From: Patterson, Robert
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 9:33 AM
To: Ventaloro, Julie
Subject: RE: WS-II question
Yes, but the Falls rules are much more stringent than the WS rules (except the BUA caps) because they require nutrient
reductions. I think they would still have to get whatever local permits are required in addition to ours. This is just like a
project in New Hanover county has to get a county sw permit in addition to the state sw permit.
I am planning to return this one ... it needs a lot of work. Maybe I should copy Butner on the return letter. Do you have
their sw contact info?
Robert D. Patterson, PE
Environmenl,al Engineer
NC1]ENR I DWQ I Stormwater Permitting
1617 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 276951-1617 Mail 1 512 N.,Salishury St, Raleigh, NC 27604 1 91h Floor l.m.ation tk, I'arcela
[phone] Thorn; 1 [phone] Fax I Robert. Pattersonanedenr.gov Email I http:/lportal.ncdenr.orgfweb/wows/su Wrbsiti;
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1

From: Ventaloro, Julie
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 9:19 AM
To: Patterson, Robert
Subject: RE: WS-II question
I think it would be reasonable to say that none of the WS built -upon area caps would apply if a LG has adopted the
USMP. The only BUA cap that would apply is the 36% cap in critical areas per the USMP.
I mentioned this scenario to Bradley this morning, and he thinks we should confer with Butner on this project so they
can review it for compliance with their USMP ordinance. (Although then he mentioned that you may be returning this
project, so maybe it's moot), Butner is planning on doing reviews of state and federal projects, but that won't kick in
until their new Falls ordinance is approved and adopted.
I'd think we would want to confer with LG's on any state/fed projects that are in both the Falls and in a WS. We are not
in the business of reviewing projects For compliance with WS, so wouldn't these projects have to be okayed by the LG's
for compliance with their WS ordinances (which are often more stringent than the state minimum)?
Julie VC11t,1101'0
Coordin:ltor, 1Vater Sul7plY Watershed Protection Progrrenl
NC Division of %V Itcr Qualit;y.
LVctlands & Stormwater lyranch
1617 \Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1617
Phone: [phone] o F six: (919) 807-6,194
NFAV Wubsite: htti)://portal.ncdenr.orghveb/wq/swp/ws/wswp
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third parties.
From: Patterson, Robert
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2011 6:48 AM
To: Ventaloro, Julie
Subject: RE: WS-II question
I'm teleworking today.
I think that existing is really old anyways. It looks like the USMP doesn't have any bearing on the Falls Lake Rules.
USMP states: "(o) Implementation of this Universal Stormwater Management Program does not affect any other rule or
requirement not specifically cited in this Rule." Falls is not specifically cited in the USMP, so it shouldn't affect us being
required to review state and federal projects under the Falls rules.
Based on all that, it appears they are still under the 30% and having to meet the Falls rules that are more stringent than
the USMP. We probably should determine though for future projects: With the USMP in place, does the 30%
requirement even still apply outside of the CA? The USMP does have a 36% max in WS CAs.
Thanks
Robert D. Patterson, PE
Environmental Engineer
NCb1 NR j DWQ I Stormwater Permitting
1617 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699-1617 Mtiil 1 512 N. Salisbury St, Raleigh, NC 27604 1 91h Floor Location n, Parcels
[phone] Phone [phone] Fax I Robert.Pattersonu,ncdenr.gov Email I http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/wq/ws/su Website
k.A Before printing this cmail, please consider your budget and the environment.
2

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From: Ventaloro, Julie
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 4:41 PM
To: Patterson, Robert
Subject: RE: WS-II question
It would depend on whether or not that 16.9% is "existing development" per the WS rules. It wouldn't get counted in
their allowable BUA if it existed before around 1993.
To add another wrinkle to this, Butner has adopted the USMP in place of a WS program, so I'm not sure we can even
require this project to abide by the WS built -upon area caps. We can discuss this Friday if you're around.
Millie Vent.tticrro
Cool-chmilot" 11';Iter Supply 11':att;r hed Prntuct,t nt 1't•ilgi%tnt
NC DivisMii nl'll'rlt.ur Qtrtrlity
1Vctl tnrl & 11r,11101
1G17 NIrtiI Sksrvico Center, I{ sleigh, NC 27699-IG1 7
f'irune: (9 19) 807-6370 ♦ Fa\: (919) 80 7-f 494
NFA\ lhehsite: http://portal.nedenr.org/web/\N,g/swphvs/wswp
E-mail cnrres,nnndpnce to and frnm this address cony he subject to the North Carnllno Public Records Cow and may he disrlosed to
this-d pur'iies.
From: Patterson, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 10:54 AM
To: Ventaloro, Julie
Cc: Bennett, Bradley
Subject: WS-II question
Julie,
I'm reviewing our first federal project under the Falls Lake rules. Those rules (02B .0281(4)(d)) state that development in
WS-II, III, or IV shall comply with those rules as well as the falls lake rules. So, the WS-11 rules limit BUA to 30%. The
proposed Butner project I'm reviewing is going from 16.9% BUA to 36.7% BUA. So, it sounds like they must revise their
plans to a max of 30% BUA ... correct?
Robert D. Patterson, PE
Environmental Engineor
NCDENR i DWQ I Stormwater Permitting
1617 Mail SA:rvicc, C(,nLa;r, Raleigh, NC 27699-1617 ,flail 1 512 N. Salisbury St, Kalcigh, NC 27604 191h Floor lmc:Iticm tic Pmcr.ls
[phone] r'honc; 1 [phone] Fax I Robert.Pattersoncr.ncdcnr.gov I'.tn,, it i http://I)ortal.nedenr.org/web/w4/ws/su Websiti,
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3

Diuguid, Bill
From: Diuguid, Bill
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 9:11 AM
To: [e-mail]'
Subject: Cantonment Trailer Relocations
Eric Tweed:
I need you to send me the output from the Jordan -Falls Lake {Nutrient Accounting Tool, for your project.
The tool can be found at website: http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/iordanlake/jr-new-development-program
We need the Excel file output once you have submitted your numbers.
Call me if you have questions.
Bill D.
Bill Diuguid, AICP
Staff Planner, Stormwater Permitting
Wetlands and. Stormwater Branch
Division of Water Quality J NCDENft
1617 Mail Service Center (Mail)
512 N. Salisbury St, Raleigh, NC 27604 1 91h Floor (Location & Parcels)
Raleigh North Carolina 27699-1617 n
Phone: [phone] Fax: [phone]
Website: hap: portal.ticdenr.org/web/wq/ws/st.t
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ill,• ;f .:!l ci
•'r}r. i 7r A
1

Patterson, Robert
From: Patterson, Robert
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 2:11 PM
To: 'Eric Tweed'
Cc: [e-mail]; 'Johnson. Jack T CTR NG NCARNG'; Smith, Danny
Subject: RE: SW5120101 - Cantonment Trailer Relocations, Butner - Additional Information Request
Eric,
received the hardcopies today. It looks good. All but a pair of the items was taken care of.
1. The DA and impervious area for bioretention cell #2 are still not consistently shown on SWU-101, supplement,
and calculations.
2. Also, please email me the revised nutrient accounting tool As file.
Please submit this information by March 3, 2012, or the application will be returned as incomplete. Let me know if you
have any questions about this matter.
Thanks
Robert.
From: Eric Tweed [mailto:etweed(ach-engr.coml
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 2:32 PM
To: Patterson, Robert
Cc: [e-mail]; Smith, Danny; 'Johnson, Jack T CTR NG NCARNG'
Subject: RE: SW5120101 - Cantonment Trailer Relocations, Butner - Additional Information Request
Robert,
Attached are comment responses for the comments issued on February 15'. I am sending an original in the mail as well.
Eric Tweed
From: Patterson, Robert [mailto:[e-mail]
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 2:11 PM
To: Eric Tweed
Cc: [e-mail]; Smith, Danny
Subject: SW5120101 - Cantonment Trailer Relocations, Butner - Additional Information Request
Eric,
Please see attached. An original is also in the mail. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks
Robert: D. Patterson, PE
Environmental Lnginccr
NCDENR I DWQ I Stormwuter Permitting
1617 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 276t)cr -1617 klml I 512 N. Salisbury St, Raleigh, NC 27604 1 9th Floor kot%Ftliou 6, I'arccls
[phone] I'hotu: { (919) 8()7 Fi494 Fiix I Robert. Pattersonu_nedenr.t?ov i:rnszil I http://portal,ncdenr,ar /webLwg1ws su Wcbsite
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